Repairing rudder gudgeon holes and pins

[Vik]

Preparing boat for our 2nd season, Jaguar 25.

Looks like task list is endless. And on top of that I am learning as I go.

One of the problems I found is excessive play in a rudder gauntlet pins/holes. Specially when sailing wind/waves and tiller moves side to side by few mills or gets rattled. I don't think it should be like this.

I found that pins on gauntlets don't have a snug fit. holes are 14mm and seemed to have some wear and not particularly round pins about 13mm. bottom pin has some wear as well.

Option 1: would be to change and install new ones, but rudder thickness is (over 70or 80mm, cant remember exactly) and off the shelf gudgeons sell up to about 50mm


Option 2 is to fix holes somehow, to have a snug fit.

Any suggestions how to fix those holes ?

I have attached some pictures for reference

Also taking out top I think impossible without making hole in a bot to access nuts at the back of it, I don't know how they been installed, as can't get hand behind it at all.

 

[William_H]

Yes I understand your problems. With my 21ft TS over 43 years of ownership rudder pintle wear has been the biggest problem. Made worse by my keeping it on a swing mooring where there is constant pressure to move rudder in every wave. I did not have the fixed pin that you have but seperate pins or bolts. So first fix was to ream out the holes and fit fatter pins. The bottom one was the worst problem. The swing rudder box is aluminium so a fat piece fits into U shaped SS brackets on transom. I did at one stage build a new fitting on bottom with extra holes for more bolts as bolts working loose in GRP. So yes I have had to climb down to inside stern to hold nuts fit backing plates etc. I confess I get my son to do that now. If you can not get access to inside of transom then only option is to cut a hole and fit an inspection port.
On mine the ali wear was the biggest problem. (not for you) Last fix involved fitting a sleeve inside of ali to reduce wear slop. Seems Ok for last 2 seasons.
I notice your pins are wearing in a ring around where they meet the pintle metal. A simple fix or partial fix might be to sit rudder up higher on washers so wear point is up the pin further. ol'will

 

[rogerthebodger]

To me a classic case of too small a bearing area and the use of unsuitable material.

The width of the hole the pins pivot on are too small that will cause excessive wear. The width of the bearing face should be more like 1.5 times the pin diameter.

To me a general design failure common on small boats

This is a much better design

 

[Boathook]

I took mine off, had them reamed out and new 'pins' made to reduce the 'slack' quite a few years ago. Possibly could have drilled out myself and used hex bolts but there was a local engineering company near me who did little jobs for the Christmas party fund.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I took mine off, had them reamed out and new 'pins' made to reduce the 'slack' quite a few years ago. Possibly could have drilled out myself and used hex bolts but there was a local engineering company near me who did little jobs for the Christmas party fund.

View attachment 173672

In this case it is important to ensure the pin in the left hand fitting is prevented from rotation so to eliminate ware in the holes in the thinner left hand item.

In designing it this way wear is only takes place on the thicker right hand unit pivot hole and pin which has a much larger bearing . wear surface

 

[Boathook]

In this case it is important to ensure the pin in the left hand fitting is prevented from rotation so to eliminate ware in the holes in the thinner left hand item.

In designing it this way wear is only takes place on the thicker right hand unit pivot hole and pin which has a much larger bearing . wear surface

The fittings were around 35 years old at the time so another 20 odd years before they need doing again ! The fittings used on a newer version of my boat look flimsy in comparison.
The pin head does sit in the fitting so rotation of the pin (around 12mm diameter) is reduced.

 

[B27]

The upper fitting on the hull can quite easily be bored or filed out and a 'top hat' bush pressed in.

The lower fitting, if it can be removed, I'd have a new pin fitted and the rudder fitting reamed to match, assuming that would not weaken it too much.
Either a pin a little bigger than original, or bush the rudder fitting.

It's easy to criticise the design of the fittings, but they've probably done many years' service?

The main thing is to stop the rudder clonking from side to side when you're sleeping at anchor etc.

 

[Refueler]

I would take rudder of .... and have the pins replaced with better sized welded ...

The gudgeon hole mounts should be ok .. maybe a touch oval - but better fitting pins will be OK.

You could have them drilled out for larger - but then that means removing them from the boat ... they are hard to drill !!

Find local metal works ....

 

[Vik]

Thank you! I will be going to remove them and speak to local engineering company to see if they can address this.

I did not even know about reaming, how simple answers on forum can quickly add knowledge.

I was worried about making holes in boat to access bolt nuts, but access hatch was a superb idea.

I will update on my progress.

 

[Refueler]

My 5m two berth Kormoran .... Lady Lu

Has similar rudder setup with pins / gudgeons ...

In the cockpit - I cut a square access to be able to get to the nuts / bolts of the mounts ... the cut out was made to match a louvred ventilator, held in place by self-tappers - the transom area also can 'breathe' ... it has transformed the boats internal 'atmosphere'...

Here you can see it ...

 

[vyv_cox]

Probably would not work very well with your very narrow gudgeon but plastic domestic water pipe makes excellent bushing material. I drilled my gooseneck and bushed it with water pipe, slit lengthways to get a good fit. I expected to replace it every year but it has now been in service for nearly 10 years with no visible wear.