Red Diesel

mrplastic

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I have worked my way through this thread and have to say that I am amazed that so many people are happy to see a further increase on the tax burden of their fellow boaters.....yes I am a motor boater and I'll stay one whatever the future tax rises are. But some (and yes I said some) of you raggies are so bloody righteous it makes me sick. This country is already one of the most highly taxed in the world....and you lot seem happy for that to increase.....where is the spirit that made this country what it once was and obviously can never be again. Lets hope we never need to fast fleet of small boats again in the future....

Some of you have quoted all sorts of rubbish about CO2 per mile/person....do I dare mention the military might we are wasting in Iraq...lets forget about the burning of the oil wells....or the truely astronomical levels of fuel used every day powering aircraft carriers, aircraft and land vehicles.....do'you think a tank is economical I wonder.....multiply that world wide and pleasure boat emissions are pathetic by comparison. You want to cut emissions...try writing to your MP.

Maybe more than a passing thought should given to that little lot. Still I guess that's OK because that little lot doesn't leave a wake in your way does it......You want to preach that tax rises for red diesel are a good thing....well when you start to ask more character testing questions like 'where will those taxes actually be going' and start looking at the big picture then you may start to be able to defend your point. Yes, I have a motor boat because I like to actually go somewhere with the limited spare time I have available to me. I am not content to sail around in ever decreasing circles....how can you do that? It must be soooooo boring. Yes, I've heard the argument that says something l like 'it's the getting there that is the best bit'....what a load of old tosh.

Yeah must be great the first few times.....but for christ sake what a waste of time and life....10 hours to do a trip I can do in two and I can leave pretty much when I like, I am not a permanent hostage to the tides or currents..... I am in control of my boat...It doesn't control me and my life. I only have the one to live and I see no benefit in using 1000's of hours of it getting to where I want to be. That IMHO is a luxury worth paying for. As for the pollution I cause....yes I admit that I do, so do cows....all that methane y'know.....power stations....lawn mowers (yes, you could use a push mower or shears if you really wanted couldn't you? How about the zillions of xmas lights that are switched on every year....I bet you have them don't you? I could go on and on. So don't try to hide behind 'it's good for the enviroment, it will reduce pollution crap'. Increasing red diesel tax is not going to have any significant effect on global pollution end of story. We are already taxed to the hilt and this is one tax to many. Stand up and be counted or be quiet but don't insult my intelligence by telling me it's for my own good.




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Jools_of_Top_Cat

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If I had not already posted my name to the petition your post would have stopped me.

Why the need to insult all those around you, seems a strange way to enjoy your leisure time if you ask me!

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BrendanS

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As a mobo, I really can't see these sorts of posts helping at all.

A little concerned that many mobos seem to be taking the emotional line that all boaters should gather around and support the cause, with no logical or reasoned arguement why that should be, and insulting raggie friends into the bargain, as being non supportive. I hope they are exceptions rather than rule, as most I know are quite reasonable people.

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BrendanS

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Just let me know where you are diving next, and will be quite happy to buzz you! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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mrplastic

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No logical or reasoned argument? I thought my points were very logical. Seemed to me that quite a few people were trying to justify the tax increase by playing the pollution card......Yes I have freely admitted that is the case, but only in a tiny part. We are all polluters be-it with our boats or simply via the stuff we buy on a daily basis. I have merely pointed out that the argument doesn't stand scrutiny....so c'mon lets hear someone justify the proposed increase without resorting to the pollution or finite fuel argument.

Now that will interest me greatly







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mrplastic

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So why did you sign it then? If the ravings of one mobo can make you so regretful than you are obviously not seeing the big picture. Also, seems to me you don't relish a heated debate it can be most enjoyable!

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Mike21

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Think the original poster kinda got some folks backs up, especially with some recent comments about tax hikes getting rid of mobo's.
Maybe we need this thread kimmerised before trench warfare breaks out, unless of course it's going for the record of longest thread/forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original reason for fuel tax was to try and limit the number of cars on the road to help prevent congestion etc, ( probably to raise more money too), and only the fuel tax escalator was brought in for enviromental issues.


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Joe_Cole

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So, it was just a rant.

I think you are missing the point.

It is the Government which is proposing to increase the tax on Red Diesel. If you don't want the increase you need to make the case to keep the current tax levels: so far the "Mobo" side of the arguement seems to be very weak. You may rant as much as you like but the reality is that the Government, and the public, will be putting the environmental case and the "Rich Boys Toys" arguement in support of an increase. Fight the Raggies if you wish, but they are not the enemy and it won't do anything to support your case. If you continue to present your arguement in this way it will simply convince more people that the tax should be raised!

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halcyon

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The funny thing is that if some of the articles away from this forum are true, it could end up costing a lot of yachties more than the motorboat boys may have to pay.


Brian

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Joe_Cole

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Brian,

I'm not sure what articles you are talking about, but if you are right then I hope that the Mobo's start making a better case than they have been so far! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Joe

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poter

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Oh dear!

I really think all you guys have really missed the point.
IMHO it has nothing to do with the environment, it has nothing even to do with raising a few more tax dollars. It has everything to do with Politics & the power game.

If you really think that the guys in power could care a damm about the tax revenue, which will be miniscule, raised on a few dumb boaters then you are sadly mistaken.
I do not know at this point, what twist this mob will put on the raising of tax on red diesel but you can bet that <font color=blue> 'Those rich boaters pay at last' </font color=blue> will come into it in the tabloid headlines, & a few more sheep will vote the new lab way, thru ignorance & prejudice

So I am afraid you are all really fighting a loosing battle. This government have raised 35billion tax pounds from your company pensions, - say that again <font color=red>THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND MILLION POUNDS</font color=red> did you know that? & no one raised a murmur of protest.

So if you think that the petty squabbles & protests via your local MP or thru, petitions is going to make any difference to a few million tax bucks, then cloud cuckoo land here we come!

Don't get me wrong I will be voting for the other lot come election time, as this lot are taking all my increased taxes and wasting them.

Guys just have fun & be nice, /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif while the tax break lasts.

poter.


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flaming

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I think the one point that has been made here and that can really be taken away from this discussion is as follows.

If the campaigners can't convince people who currently benefit from red diesel that the campaign has some serious merits how are they going to convince the landlubber public?

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Jools_of_Top_Cat

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I have watched this thread rock to and fro without actually getting anywhere fast. We have learnt those who are most against this bill are upset because 140 gallons of fuel for the weekend is going to cost too much.

Then a raggie (me for instance) comes on, and is shocked by the absurd fuel usage by larger or faster MOBO’s and asks how they can justify this ridiculous amount of fuel to Joe Public, who, does the same trip by road using 2-3 gallons of petrol.

Others have said the tax is needed because fuel usage is too high and fossil fuels are being wasted. Which is what you don’t want to hear!

The only counter argument I have heard so far, which is pathetic, is oh but raggies just want to get at us MOBO's. Not so, but on reflection of this thread I would like to see more MOBO's taking care of the fuel they use, because IMHO 140 gallons to cross the Bristol Channel and back is ludicrous and selfish!

I crossed from Padstow to Milford in a flat calm and used about 3 gallons, running both engines! Ok, a slower crossing, but hey have any of you MOBO's who are so vociferous ever wondered what that big space on your throttle is between neutral and full throttle?

This, IS not a raggie vs MOBO problem, but the sports boat owners are starting to believe that anyone who is not behind their cause must therefore be against them!

This is an unhealthy attitude and one which had made me reconsider my stance and whether I want to be involved with any demonstration or petition to protect road tax free fuel, because lets face it, it is my smallest cost when running the boat, my VHF ships license is worth double than my normal annual fuel costs.

I will continue to be against taxing red diesel at road fund levels because I believe most motor boaters are not like you and appreciate we all have different hobbies and tastes and we all have a right to be on the water. But I do ask high fuel users to be a little more careful, because there really isn’t enough to go around.


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BrendanS

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Not really a sportsboat arguement at all. Most of them are petrol. I think you are thinking of sportscruisers.

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cliff

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halcyon writes "The funny thing is that if some of the articles away from this forum are true, it could end up costing a lot of yachties more than the motorboat boys may have to pay"

Which articles are you referring to? and where are they?


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Bejasus

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I have to say that this post has run it's course and should now be locked, especially as there is a forum created for just this subject.
My own opinion is that the water is there for everyone and all users, regardless of type, should do there best to make it enjoyable for all.
Suppose G. Brown suddenly decided, 'I know, let's tax boats like cars, according to power size. Bigger engines bigger tax etc'...............'Aha, says Tony, but that means we leave all those untaxed yachties untouched'...............'hmm, your right Tony, how about we just tax them on sq. footage of sail'. 'Spot on', says Tony.

Don't shoot, tongue firmly in cheek

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