bedouin
Well-known member
Falling overboard properly dressed with LJ and PLB = probably okay.
I have never given any serious thought to getting back on board if I go overboard when single handed - I just assume it isn't going to happen.
Recovering from falling overboard when single handed
- Thread starter westernman
- Start date
I have never given any serious thought to getting back on board if I go overboard when single handed - I just assume it isn't going to happen.
dunedin
Well-known member
I would suggest - properly dressed with LJ and PLB plus handheld VHF and waterproof mobile phone
If there are any other boats around, a call on VHF or to the coastguard by phone will likely get faster response than the PLB
Halo
Well-known member
Ralph McTell summed up single handing in his song “Wild Cape Horn”
He said
“If you want to love your life you have to flirt with death “
He said
“If you want to love your life you have to flirt with death “
bedouin
Well-known member
Better make it a 250N LJ to support that lot
VHF is line of sight only so fine in calm conditions but with any sort of swell I think it could be very difficult getting / maintaining contact with a boat but other than that yes - direct contact with HMCG will get you rescued much faster than PLB
flaming
Well-known member
In UK waters, depending on time of year, if there's no one close enough to hear a VHF call then the odds of you being plucked out of the water before you've died of hypothermia can be pretty slim if you're waiting for the signal to be received by the coastguard, them to ascertain whether it's a false alarm and scramble assets to your location. In Spring, when the water temperature off the South coast is still in single figures, your survival time is thought to be under an hour.Better make it a 250N LJ to support that lot
VHF is line of sight only so fine in calm conditions but with any sort of swell I think it could be very difficult getting / maintaining contact with a boat but other than that yes - direct contact with HMCG will get you rescued much faster than PLB
Singlehanded MOB is relying on an extraordinary stroke of luck to survive.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Agree. We talked about this in detail recently and there is little hope a PLB will be quick enough because of the necesary process to weed out false alarms. Mobile and VHF might.
I've always thought wearing a shortie wetsuit under oilies might extend life long enough to be rescued but that carries its own disadvantages and I've never bothered myself or made the kids do so. There's only so much you can do.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Which really is no joke. I carry mobile and VHF round my neck on lanyards if I'm somewhere a bit lonely single handed and it's a massive PITA.
If they sorted out PLBs to have two way coms so the casualty can say (or text) this is a legitimate emergency the phone and vhf could be discarded.
The fundamental problem here is PLBs are old tech and could be dramatically better. (It feels weird writing that, but it's true.)
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Under its autopilot it steadily crossed the BC and ran aground unharmed on the mudflat near Newport. CG flumoxed but locals more used to our tides made educated guess and there it was
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
So in the water being sprayed by waves, you hope to raise sprayhood and text someone with wet fingers that probably wont even open your touchscreen?
Drowning and Hypothermia are old well proven tech. If you want to avoid an early appointment with Death dont fall in especially if single handed.
Overall responce time to PLB is between a few hours and a few day. Except in high summer and calm weather hypothermia is quicker.
I carry a PLB but except in liferaft i assume its a forlorn hope
bedouin
Well-known member
Expected survival times are often quoted as 45mins-2hrs in winter, 2.5-9 hrs in summer - though hard to find out what assumptions they make about clothing. I would expect a response to a PLB in UK coastal waters to be well under 2 hours
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
If its 2 hours and autumn in the Bristol Channel you would probably be an hour dead by the time they fished your corpse out unless you were wearing a floatation suit -as the saying goes 'Do you feel lucky". Women surprisingly outlast men in cold weather as their bodies keep heat into inner organs (hence their usual cold feet)
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Unless you perform and apply a risk assessment, to survive and be rescued as a single handed MOB, to reduce risks to an acceptable level, this debate is all just whataboutism.
1. Survival in cold conditions in the water to prevent death by drowning or hypothermia is realistic with current clothing and lifejacket technology.
2. Having aids to communicate being overboard for short, medium and long distances are in place and of a size to carry on person.
3. Methods to reduce response times through communicating passage plans, which reduce uncertainty are available for UK waters, and international passages.
The only conclusion that can be made, is that surviving a single handed MOB is both realistic and credible in UK waters, of course less so in international waters, offshore, but not zero.
Of course cost is relevant and if survival aids are not bought then probability reduces. Similarly if they are available but not used.
If you believe that single handed MOB means certain death, in UK waters, then you are adopting a fatalistic approach to the problem.
Indeed it is irrelevant if you never sail singlehanded.
1. Survival in cold conditions in the water to prevent death by drowning or hypothermia is realistic with current clothing and lifejacket technology.
2. Having aids to communicate being overboard for short, medium and long distances are in place and of a size to carry on person.
3. Methods to reduce response times through communicating passage plans, which reduce uncertainty are available for UK waters, and international passages.
The only conclusion that can be made, is that surviving a single handed MOB is both realistic and credible in UK waters, of course less so in international waters, offshore, but not zero.
Of course cost is relevant and if survival aids are not bought then probability reduces. Similarly if they are available but not used.
If you believe that single handed MOB means certain death, in UK waters, then you are adopting a fatalistic approach to the problem.
Indeed it is irrelevant if you never sail singlehanded.
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capnsensible
Well-known member
I've linked to this site on here before. Lots of good information if you dig a bit. No guesses here, they've trialed it all on volunteers.
1/10/1
Don't forget that in any sort of wind causing spray, unless your life jacket has a
Sprayhood, you may well drown before the cold gets you.....
Buy a boat. Clip on or find a friend.
1/10/1
Don't forget that in any sort of wind causing spray, unless your life jacket has a
Sprayhood, you may well drown before the cold gets you.....
Buy a boat. Clip on or find a friend.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
That looks good for where I normally sail as the current sea water is 20.1 degrees C
justanothersailboat
Active member
It's not fatalistic if you decide there is a limited amount of further change you can usefully do about that side of the risk in your circumstances and decide to focus all your additional efforts on not falling overboard instead. Realistically, singlehanded sailing has a very low actual danger and much of that low danger comes from low frequency of MOB, which presumably is kept low by awareness, preparation, judgement, and building good habits.
capnsensible's link has some good info, but I'm a bit worried by the suggestion on its graph... that I'd last longer if I were fat. I'll try not to start referring to pie-eating as "putting on my survival suit".
capnsensible's link has some good info, but I'm a bit worried by the suggestion on its graph... that I'd last longer if I were fat. I'll try not to start referring to pie-eating as "putting on my survival suit".
Mark-1
Well-known member
I bought a mobile phone designed for elderly people with massive physical buttons I use specifically for sailing which lives in an aquapac. As it happens it's turned out to have all kinds of alternative uses. (Kayak, lending to the kids, tender ashore, patrol boat duties.) I'd agree it's not going to be easy to use it in the water but I'll have the rest of my life to try! ...and who knows, the VHF or PLB might work. Holding an antenna on a PLB isn't going to be easy either. As yet there are no good options except perhaps an inreach or equivalent but that requires subscription which I'm not mad keen on.
As it happens I reckon I'd have half a change with a touchscreen (it's not like I'd have anything better to do while I was waiting for the end) and I can used the volume and power buttons to dial 999.
As soon as something better arrives I'll gleefully ditch everything I carry now. (I nearly did a few months ago in reposnse to a post on this forum. If I hadn't checked I would have.)
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flaming
Well-known member
"Hey Siri...."
flaming
Well-known member
You've sent me off down a google rabbit hole of trying to find real world plb reaction times!
There is some recent evidence that they're reasonably fast. About 90 minutes from going in the drink to helicopter in this example. Ok at the end of summer, but getting dicy in April.
McMurdo Fast Find PLB Rescues Solo Sailor | Yachting Pages
To be honest that's a lot better than I'd anticipated. When Rambler capsized in 2011 it was over 4 hours after activation before anyone found them.
And whilst not in UK waters, this Aussie chap was in the water for over 5 hours. Luckily for him it was 31 degrees and the tiger sharks didn't find him.
How a PLB saved my life when I was knocked overboard - Yachting Monthly
bedouin
Well-known member
Those figures give somewhat longer survival times than are generally quoted - and it seems that those of us who fall unshamedly into the "short fat" category have a distinct advantage over those in the "tall thin". Perhaps I will rethink those plans to go on a diet.
westernman
Well-known member
Don't worry - if you are "short & fat" you will never ever be "tall & thin".
At best "short & thin".
