bedouin
Well-known member
I guestimate that with a GPS PLB the Coastguard will have someone looking for you in about an hour
Capnsensible's link above gives some rather more optimistic survival times.
Recovering from falling overboard when single handed
- Thread starter westernman
- Start date
Capnsensible's link above gives some rather more optimistic survival times.
Mark-1
Well-known member
A guy on a previous thread tried to work it out by looking at MAIB reports and the average response times were abysmal. It's only just occurred to me that there was survivorship bias there (ironic name in this case). By definition the MAIB are only looking at the worst outcomes which are highly likely to involve a poor response. So perhaps response times are way better than we fear.
It also occurred to me you can game the PLB response by telling your shore contact to *always* say "Yes, he's just phoned me to say he's genuinely in dire trouble at the location his PLB is at.". I would guess that *will* generate an immediate response on their second or first phone call. (Of course if everyone does it....)
BobnLesley
Well-known member
Even in settled conditions, an 'average' yottie couldn't even hang on - assuming he/she had managed to catch hold of in the first place - to the gunnels at above about two or three knots
bedouin
Well-known member
And since we are disappearing into cold water survival it is worth reminding people that when entering cold water the best thing to do is NOTHING for a couple of minutes - make frantic efforts to swim back to the boat and you could be dead in 60 seconds.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Funny, but I wonder... I'd have thought there would be an excellent Yachting Magazine article on real world performance of communication kit when swimming. Dialing out on a touch screen or with voice control might be surprisingly feasible if you really stick at it they way you would if your life depended on it. Knowing the 999 button shortcut would likely make it feasible. Also I'm curious if my waterproof handheld VHF actually works after a drenching, I've always assumed it would but presumably the mic can get clogged with water and muffle the voice even if the radio itself functions perfectly. (Again, I wonder if persistence makes a difference here. Screaming "I'm clinging to West Princessa!" over and over again for 25 minutes might be comprehended by someone even badly muffled.) Might be some surprising results if someone actually tried these things.
Real world PLB times to launch would be something a Yachting Mag could investigate. I bet the CG would cooperate.
Last edited:
capnsensible
Well-known member
It's worth the digging to find the videos. There is a similar one made in USA.. Real people real cold water. In Canada. The info is there about why the research was carried out, ie the death rate on Cnadian lakes.
The graph is gor people who survive cold water immersion shock and are wearing a life jacket. A friend of mine anchored in relatively mild water temperature had a chap jump over the dide for a swim. He had a heart attack and died.
From the simulated stuff I've done as a fit younger guy in my past was the importance of that sprayhood and getting through that first 1 + 11 minutes.
The videos are a great visual aid plus the interviews with the volunteers. Real stuff.
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
I was once drifting in a flat calm in a Freedom 21, so very low freeboard. I was with a friend who was strong but inexperienced. I tied one end of a long rope onto the boat and one end onto a harness then jumped in for a swim. A little breeze wafted over and the boat started moving, really barely making progress, but I could still barely keep up swimming. My friend put the helm down; even with the sail flopping about the boat drifted at maybe half my maximum swimming speed.
I caught up with the boat and tried to climb aboard using a bight of mooring line as a step. Even with my friend helping it was very difficult to get aboard.
Based on that, I think it would be unlikely that a singlehander could get back in a boat unless there was a proper boarding ladder, more or less a flat calm, a fit person, warm sea, light clothing and a fair bit of luck.
I caught up with the boat and tried to climb aboard using a bight of mooring line as a step. Even with my friend helping it was very difficult to get aboard.
Based on that, I think it would be unlikely that a singlehander could get back in a boat unless there was a proper boarding ladder, more or less a flat calm, a fit person, warm sea, light clothing and a fair bit of luck.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Google suggests a Freedom 21 is likely to have an outboard. If you have an outboard you have a ladder. (Lovely looking boat, BTW.)
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
I'm cautious about joining in a discussion on this subject, as I got my head bitten off last time.
However, I've just had a conversation with my local friendly ops room to double check my facts, so here goes.....
The RCC at Fareham receives the alert and makes very rapid enquiries. They then assign it to a CG ops room, which, as it is distress, have to start acting on it and pressing buttons immediately.
So the protocol is that assets are tasked within 5 minutes of the alert initially being received.
Any further investigations, phone/VHF calls etc happen after that.
I seem to recall one or two MAIB reports (which I can't find at the moment) concerning situations where this didn't happen, but that's probably why they were subject to an investigation.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
See my earlier answer re CG response protocols. An EPIRB/PLB is classified as distress, so they have set time limits to act, which are monitored by their incident management computer system.
GPS will definitely save time, plus remember that a helicopter or lifeboat (apart from a D Class) can home in on a 121.5 signal.
chris-s
Well-known member
If you were unlucky enough to mob offshore, having some way to remotely deploy a life raft might be useful or even shove the tiller/wheel hard over.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
Ive got an emergency ladder webbing type with padded steps. One day a few years ago whilst becalmed in the med I decided to pop over the side and check the prop as I wasn't doing well under engine. so dead calm and stopped I tied a rope around my waist and to the boat and jumped overboard. Prop was fouled and ladder was bloody useless! After some time I managed to grab a fender and some line and rig it so I could climb onto it and then onto the boat. That was in lovely warm water in just shorts, dead calm.
It reaffirmed my belief that If I ever did go overboard for real the only decision I would have to make was when to cut my safety line and make my peace with god.
It reaffirmed my belief that If I ever did go overboard for real the only decision I would have to make was when to cut my safety line and make my peace with god.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Us paupers on swinging moorings frequently tow dinghies so that solves the whole problem.
Except the times when I'm well away from help are the times I'm less likely to be towing a dinghy.
Bouba
Well-known member
That was my first thought.....my second thought was he was displaying upper body strength that most yachtsmen I see don’t appear to have
Bouba
Well-known member
My idea (and if you use it please send me 50% of the profits)....instead of a life line...and then scramble to find those nylon ladders....the life line should be an extra long ladder....and possibly (with a huge amount of luck) you could scramble back on board
Bristolfashion
Well-known member
I have a DSC capable handheld VHF and a PLB. I'm setting off both!
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I believe that there is less chance of going overboard if one stays in the cockpit. Hence, I disagree with those who think reefing at the mast is a good idea. I do go on deck to set fenders & mooring lines, but first I slow the boat to a couple of kts so if I do go in then I have a chance. If I am doing that in an outer harbour, such as Cherbourg, Dover, Boulogne etc. the boat would soon hit a groin & someone would raise the alarm.
.
I have a line along the hull each side that I can reach from the water. It seems silly to me to be in the water & unable to reach the deck. I have seen people fall out of the tender when coming alongside & have nothing to grip. Not everybody falls out of the host craft. More fall out of the tender I suspect.
.
It would also help a MOB to keep alongside the craft, if the crew were trying to recover them if the MOB can hold on to something. Thus giving them some confidence as well.
.
My theory is that I have a hook on a 150mm line attached to my harness. I hook to that line along the hull & cut the main harness. I will now slide round to the transom where I will not bash against the side of the boat. Hopefully I can climb aboard up the stern by my Aries & other ropes I have at the stern for that purpose.
In my sailing career I have been overboard 3 times. Only once SH. But was held upside down by my boot hooked to the horn of a cleat.
.
I have a line along the hull each side that I can reach from the water. It seems silly to me to be in the water & unable to reach the deck. I have seen people fall out of the tender when coming alongside & have nothing to grip. Not everybody falls out of the host craft. More fall out of the tender I suspect.
.
It would also help a MOB to keep alongside the craft, if the crew were trying to recover them if the MOB can hold on to something. Thus giving them some confidence as well.
.
My theory is that I have a hook on a 150mm line attached to my harness. I hook to that line along the hull & cut the main harness. I will now slide round to the transom where I will not bash against the side of the boat. Hopefully I can climb aboard up the stern by my Aries & other ropes I have at the stern for that purpose.
In my sailing career I have been overboard 3 times. Only once SH. But was held upside down by my boot hooked to the horn of a cleat.
bedouin
Well-known member
Neither of which is likely to help much because in the sort of conditions you are likely to MOB the boat or an inflated liferaft is going to be going down wind much faster than you can swim.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Yes, but if the inflation painter is still attached to the boat there can be a way of pulling yourself to the lift raft and a way to get back to your main boat by pulling the painter
My life raft s mounted on the stern of my boat so need to setup a way of releasing it from water level
Bouba
Well-known member
What you need is a way of instantly stopping the boat when you fall over board....like a sail kill cord...explosive devices in the winches for example
