Recomendation for an electric windlass

KREW2 said:
Do you have a manual windlass at the moment, or is it all done by hand?
If not then you will need to budget for about 25 meters of new calibrated chain, as well as the wiring, which can be costly, as well as awkward to run.
When I installed mine someone suggested I use welding cable as it is more flexible and easier to run. I did however just go with ordinary untinned cable and had the ends heat sealed.
Basically the final cost was about double the cost of the windlass.
Click to expand...
Do cuIMG-20220920-WA0002.jpgthis is the current setup. So starting from scratch.

Current plan is to swap the anchor and mooring over, so the anchor is on the port side.
Hopefully I can then get the chain to go down tge existing hole...
 
Doubt there will be enough room there for either a horizontal or vertical axis windlass. It will need to be further back a bit aft of where your fender is to give sufficient room both for the windlass and for the anchor stock . The further back the better to get enough fall for the chain (min 30cm). The foredeck and below was designed before even manual windlasses were common. In reality a manual windlass, particularly the old SL Anchorman is far more appropriate for this size boat. A Lofrans Royale manual is about a third of the installed price of even the most basic quality electric one.
 
Your chain looks like very clean and polished G30 - or more likely stainless. It also looks to be 8mm. If you decide to opt for a manual windlass and can source one second hand the windlass will then dictate what chain you use. I assume the chain we can see is the mooring chain - you don't need that size/quality in an anchor chain. If you are really starting from scratch then I would look at 6mm chain. Just go into a chandler and 'handle'6mm and 8mm chain. If you decide this is sensible then I'd buy the chain and try retrieving by hand - 6mm is so much easier. I cannot quite define what anchor you are using - but if you buy a 'modern' anchor - almost any of them will be better than an older design and you could save some weight in the anchor - adding to ease of retrieval.

You expenditure will be less than buying a new electric windlass, there will be no agony over powering the windlass, if you go electric, nor how to site the windlass.

I have retrieved by hand 8mm and 6mm, I have reduced the weight of my anchors, from 15kg to 8kg - I know what is easier. I know pressing a button is so, so much easier - but your proposed installation will cost and be a devil to complete, neatly.

Jonathan
 
Our boat came with a fact fitted Lewmar Windlass. Being in the Med we anchor a lot and after multiple breakdowns (2 motors burnt out and a broken shaft) I changed it for a Lofrans Cayman. Not had a problem since, So my advice is Lofrans every time!
 
It's interesting and I agree you should alway motor forward when hauling up the chain but there are times when you need the windlass to have some pull too.
Some years back we went astern on a fishman dock in Catania because there was a chance that the harbour may house some rubbish close to the quay we dropped way out using all 100 mts of chain and a tripping line .
Leaving was another story, we did as we always do and use the engine so we only taken up the slack then all the sudden the chain became tight and no matter how much we pulled on the tripping line ,
at time tie it while releasing chain and driving it forward there was no releasing the fouled anchor .
What save the day was the winless slowly but surely we slowly pulled up a large chain that was right across the harbour high enough for me to get into the dinghy and with the help or our pole get a line around the chain but doing so the boat bow was dipping down ,
So there are times when you need the windlassto do a bit more then just pull a boat forward .
That was one hell of a windlass unlike the Cayman we had on our Moody where at time would just trip for no reason and always did so when you really needed it .
 
sailaboutvic said:
It's interesting and I agree you should alway motor forward when hauling up the chain but there are times when you need the windlass to have some pull too.
Some years back we went astern on a fishman dock in Catania because there was a chance that the harbour may house some rubbish close to the quay we dropped way out using all 100 mts of chain and a tripping line .
Leaving was another story, we did as we always do and use the engine so we only taken up the slack then all the sudden the chain became tight and no matter how much we pulled on the tripping line ,
at time tie it while releasing chain and driving it forward there was no releasing the fouled anchor .
What save the day was the winless slowly but surely we slowly pulled up a large chain that was right across the harbour high enough for me to get into the dinghy and with the help or our pole get a line around the chain but doing so the boat bow was dipping down ,
So there are times when you need the windlassto do a bit more then just pull a boat forward .
That was one hell of a windlass unlike the Cayman we had on our Moody where at time would just trip for no reason and always did so when you really needed it .
Click to expand...
That's a job for a dive cylinder / freedive, not a windlass.
 
JFowler said:
Our boat came with a fact fitted Lewmar Windlass. Being in the Med we anchor a lot and after multiple breakdowns (2 motors burnt out and a broken shaft) I changed it for a Lofrans Cayman. Not had a problem since, So my advice is Lofrans every time!
Click to expand...
One suggestion after having two Cayman is remove each year and clean the bottom or you find it will get eaten away . What I did to one of mine is epoxy the bottom half .
 
Neeves said:
Your chain looks like very clean and polished G30 - or more likely stainless. It also looks to be 8mm. If you decide to opt for a manual windlass and can source one second hand the windlass will then dictate what chain you use. I assume the chain we can see is the mooring chain - you don't need that size/quality in an anchor chain. If you are really starting from scratch then I would look at 6mm chain. Just go into a chandler and 'handle'6mm and 8mm chain. If you decide this is sensible then I'd buy the chain and try retrieving by hand - 6mm is so much easier. I cannot quite define what anchor you are using - but if you buy a 'modern' anchor - almost any of them will be better than an older design and you could save some weight in the anchor - adding to ease of retrieval.

You expenditure will be less than buying a new electric windlass, there will be no agony over powering the windlass, if you go electric, nor how to site the windlass.

I have retrieved by hand 8mm and 6mm, I have reduced the weight of my anchors, from 15kg to 8kg - I know what is easier. I know pressing a button is so, so much easier - but your proposed installation will cost and be a devil to complete, neatly.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

If he has the original chain for his anchor more than likely it is 1/4" or 6mm if replaced.
 
Neeves said:
If its 1/4" or even 6mm and original - it would be extraordinary. :)

How old could it be?

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Early 80s. still a lot around that don't anchor much and chain is kept like this one in a nice dry locker down below. There was a thread the other week on the same subject with a similar age Westerly that still had its original chain.

Key thing for the OP is that adding an electric windlass to this boat is a major undertaking and even using a cheap South Pacific windlass is likely going to cost £1200+ including cabling and new chain.
 
Neeves said:
The advice of all windlass suppliers is 'do not use the windlass to pull the yacht toward the anchor
Click to expand...
The way we do it is pull in the slack to take some of the catenary out of the chain and then stop pulling. The weight of the chain then pulls the boat forward as the catenary reforms and then we start winching again and repeat. That seems to work for us and doesn't put a huge strain on the windlass.
 
SteveGorst said:
The way we do it is pull in the slack to take some of the catenary out of the chain and then stop pulling. The weight of the chain then pulls the boat forward as the catenary reforms and then we start winching again and repeat. That seems to work for us and doesn't put a huge strain on the windlass.
Click to expand...

The big strain on the windlass is when the rode is straightening and becoming vertical and there is chop and a well set anchor resisting retrieval. The answer is one that has been mentioned by roaringgirl. Take the load off the windlass and transfer the tension to a strong point using a dyneema strop. Its difficult to do this without putting a snatch load on the windlass - and you need the load or the anchor will not ooze out. Moving the yacht over the anchor by using catenary as the motive power (with maybe a bit of extra grunt from the engine) will simply not impact the engineering of the windlass (which is built for, say 150kg tension. Its the many 100s of kgs of the snatch load that is the big issue (how do I know - I measure it). As roaringgirl says its not the gentle retrieval tensions its the snatch loads that are the killer. The snatch loads are chilling and will take your fingers off. A well set modern anchor needs that tension of the set anchor which might be 500kg, after a bit of wind - with chop causing some impatience (and fear in the children).......

Its a contradiction but the very reason for choosing a 'good' anchor is its high hold - but its hold can cause some anxiety.

When Gordon Lyall and his team developed the Delta one of his objectives was to make an anchor with good hold but was easy to retrieve. He had the right ideas.

Jonathan
 
With regard to windlass power and pulling the boat along.
An ex-navy friend of mine tells the tale of a captain on one of HM frigates who made a big gaffe. They were at sea crossing the Bay of Biscay in very deep, clean water so the captain thought that it would be a good idea to drop the anchor into the void so as to empty the chain locker to give it a proper clean out. All fine, anchor locker pristine, but then of course they couldn't wind the anchor and chain back in as the ship's windlass was never designed to lift the anchor and all the chain vertically in one go - tonnes and tonnes of weight. Obviously, even in relatively deep water they would only ever have a proportion of the chain, and ultimately the anchor too, suspended in mid water, never all of it. Teams of men with blocks and tackles and lots of sweat finally got the anchor to a point where it could be wound in.
The frigate ended up with one immaculate chain locker and the other stayed as it was.
 
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