Rather than change to LiFePo batteries, how about an intigrated 'Power Station?'

taking comments here ... I thought to have a look at LiFe batterys ...

Voltrium 100 A/Hr with BMS / Bluetooth ready drop in to car / RV or whatever .... 976 euros ..............

Yeh OK ...

I need 3 replacements of 100 A/Hr .... think I'll stick with Lead Acids and keep the change for the Pub !!
 
Refueler said:
taking comments here ... I thought to have a look at LiFe batterys ...

Voltrium 100 A/Hr with BMS / Bluetooth ready drop in to car / RV or whatever .... 976 euros ..............

Yeh OK ...

I need 3 replacements of 100 A/Hr .... think I'll stick with Lead Acids and keep the change for the Pub !!
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How much are you paying for lead acid?
 
goeasy123 said:
Here you go. 'direct experience'....


It runs a Starlink Mini directly of the 100w USB C port, an espresso machine, toaster, kettle and induction hob (two at a time) as well as charging all the plug-in shit you gotta carry about with you these days. We take it off the boat in the dinghy to run and 1500W 240VAC hookah. Also useful for BBQ's and amp and PA set up for band..
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I agree if that is how you use 240v - but on a coastal cruising 28' boat as the OP is planning.
 
stranded said:
Or…

https://www.fogstar.co.uk/products/fogstar-drift-300ah-leisure-battery
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You're falling into the trap so many Lithium user fall into, thinking that Lithium is the only way for every one. It isn't.

For instance, Refueler manages perfectly OK with LA batteries, 3 cheap LA's will cost him about £240, all in, job done. The battery you link to is £200 on it's own. He'll need 2 of those, plus B2B, plus possibly a new mains charger, plus wiring, fuses etc etc Why would be go that way ?

Also, 3 of those batteries will cost £600. Cells to make a 314ah pack will cost £260 plus about £100 for a BMS, nearly half price.
 
PaulRainbow said:
You're falling into the trap so many Lithium user fall into, thinking that Lithium is the only way for every one. It isn't.

For instance, Refueler manages perfectly OK with LA batteries, 3 cheap LA's will cost him about £240, all in, job done. The battery you link to is £200 on it's own. He'll need 2 of those, plus B2B, plus possibly a new mains charger, plus wiring, fuses etc etc Why would be go that way ?

Also, 3 of those batteries will cost £600. Cells to make a 314ah pack will cost £260 plus about £100 for a BMS, nearly half price.
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Not really Paul, just pointing out that €900 odd per 100Ah is not really a representative cost when working out the pros and cons.
 
stranded said:
Or…

https://www.fogstar.co.uk/products/fogstar-drift-300ah-leisure-battery
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No thanks .... if its true Leisure battery which it may be as its quotes 80% discharge capability (I would not do that personally - do that a few times and you can say goodbye to it !) .... its no good for starting a 170hp engine -not every LiFePo4 is a starter high current battery. Like all batterys - capacity vs high output ....

If I was to consider for one of my other boats ... the battery boxes are actually moulded jobs designed for separate 80 - 100 A/hr batts ...

Good price though if you can fit and only want for domestics or small engine starts as well.
 
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PaulRainbow said:
I was referring to your reply to Refueler.
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No go with him ... he's not far off ...

That 100 A/hr I quoted has all the built in stuff to drop straight into a car / boat etc without any changes needed ... but you pay for that convenience. If I was to change then of course I would look at more budget priced and set up.

But as you say - LA does me well ... I've sailed with it for more years than I care admit ... I can easily replace the battery at any marina / petrol station etc if needed ...

My point was though in mentioning that LiFe battery - was in comparison to the Integrated unit and others who said about buying separate batts and gear ... I have a hard time understanding for general boaters spending so much money on battery .... surely a better way is to up the solar or whatever to manage the batterys on board better ?
 
For some, Lithium makes perfect sense, but not for everyone.

You can pile as much solar on as you like, if you don't have the capacity to store the power or you can't get it into the batteries fast enough, it's waste of money.

I fitted 900w of solar and previously had 4x110ah batteries (that's 100kg). The batteries couldn't take full advantage of the solar yield that was available, due to the low charge acceptance of LA and using them to power the 3000w inverter was a definite no-no. I've now fitted a LifeP04 pack and that can take everything the solar panels can throw at it, plus it's happy running the inverter, even using it for cooking (we are 100% electric, no gas etc).

My previous boat used gas for cooking and more modest electrical requirements. It had 4xTrojan T105s and 200w of solar. During the Summer i was self sufficient for electricity, other than if we had 2 or 3 very cloudy days. Why spend money on Lithium ?
 
Refueler said:
No thanks .... if its true Leisure battery which it may be as its quotes 80% discharge capability (I would not do that personally - do that a few times and you can say goodbye to it !) ....
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I’m not sure you understand LiFePo batteries??? You could DEFINITELY discharge it 80% many, many times. That’s the whole point of lithium batteries.
 
Refueler said:
Brand new here I can get an 80 A/hr for about 85 euro ..... 100 A/hr for about 95 euro ... nothing else needed. With warranty that does not default out because its on a boat.
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If you need to stay engines with these small capacity batteries, they definitely stick with lead acid. That's one of the reasons why lead acid remains the best choice on smaller boats- and why they are still the best choice on cars.

However if you have a battery that does not need to start an engine, there is no price advantage in lead acid any more. But you may need to spend a bit of money making the necessary changes to the rest of the system. You can then enjoy using a battery that gives you much better charging characteristics, almost no voltage drop, and an almost unlimited lifespan. Your heater and other systems will love it, and you will no longer give a hoot whether you ever get it to 100%. You can basically treat it like a fuel tank, you put power in, you take power out. There's a reason us lithium converts get a bit evangelical 😂
 
Neeves said:
Bluetti may, or may not, have sponsored any of the videos but there is no mention of sailing, that I could find, on the website and no mention of 'independent' or sponsored videos either.
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It wasn’t a question. I was explaining that they have sponsored many channels, I’ve seen the videos and the hosts have stated sponsorship.
 
Sea Change said:
If you need to stay engines with these small capacity batteries, they definitely stick with lead acid. That's one of the reasons why lead acid remains the best choice on smaller boats- and why they are still the best choice on cars.

However if you have a battery that does not need to start an engine, there is no price advantage in lead acid any more. But you may need to spend a bit of money making the necessary changes to the rest of the system. You can then enjoy using a battery that gives you much better charging characteristics, almost no voltage drop, and an almost unlimited lifespan. Your heater and other systems will love it, and you will no longer give a hoot whether you ever get it to 100%. You can basically treat it like a fuel tank, you put power in, you take power out. There's a reason us lithium converts get a bit evangelical 😂
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You seem to forget that I model with many different Lithium types of battery ... with bench / field gear to meter / charge / monitor ..... so well aware of Lithium potential. Small or big - same story.

You do overstate Li advantage a bit ....
 
PaulRainbow said:
Why can't he have 240v on a 28 ft boat ?
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Did not say he could not - his question was whether these power packs were a viable alternative to a lithium installation. Given that he has yet to say why he wants 240v except so that he can be "profligate with electricity" (post 31". Then describes what he has in his current 40' which is very different from what might be suitable for a 28'. Even if he does want to cook with electricity, use a kettle, hair drier, coffee machine, heat his water etc there are still better ways of doing it than using a power station of the type suggested.

Post#37 describes a situation where such a product is useful, but as I pointed out that seems very different from what the oP plans.
 
Refueler said:
You seem to forget that I model with many different Lithium types of battery ... with bench / field gear to meter / charge / monitor ..... so well aware of Lithium potential. Small or big - same story.

You do overstate Li advantage a bit ....
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I was aware of that but I assumed that you weren't quite up to speed with marine LFP batteries seeing as you thought the going rate was €900/100Ah...
 
fredrussell said:
I’m not sure you understand LiFePo batteries??? You could DEFINITELY discharge it 80% many, many times. That’s the whole point of lithium batteries.
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You are kidding ?? I have been using LiFe, LiPo, LiCd, many different Li versions for many years .. literally from the day they hit the hobby market.

Of course if you stay in the low discharge rate ranges 80% discharge will keep you within the minimum charge level ... but if you repeatedly discharge at high rates to that 80% ... you aint gonna have such nice long life ............
No battery whatever chemistry will keep tolerating high rates on the limits .... which others I hope take note off ...
 
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