Radar reflectors again.

[rotrax]

Hundreds of yachts in and around New Zealand. First Mate and I commented on how few-10%- had Radar Reflectors.

Traffic at sea not quite as much as round here though...................................

 

[johnalison]

That's rather a sweeping statement.
If it were true, people would never have gone to the bother of mounting passive reflectors on navigation marks and so forth.

Most buoys will be viewed at relatively short range and the offshore ones will have larger reflectors than yachts deploy, and I would not be surprised if they were often missed when viewed in rain. Nothing is guaranteed, but I would prefer to rely on my SeaMe.

 

[Jamesuk]

Tri-lens

 

[Pete7]

Worth keeping an eye on e bay and the for sale forum. Second hand passive reflectors often pop up at a fraction of the new price. Not exactly a lot to go wrong with them. Then use the spare cash to fit the biggest solar panel you can.

 

[rotrax]

Not exactly a lot to go wrong with them.

Dont buy one that rattles!

Took one ofF our Gibsea 96 that looked perfect but had broken up inside. When I cut it open to take a look I found lots of white oxide and pieces of alloy.

It was quite old-fitted in '93 IIRC.

 

[lw395]

Worth keeping an eye on e bay and the for sale forum. Second hand passive reflectors often pop up at a fraction of the new price. Not exactly a lot to go wrong with them. Then use the spare cash to fit the biggest solar panel you can.

Avoid used 'Blippers'
It might be one I've seen used as a fender...

 

[tony_lavelle]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is nearly upright. They just give a false sense of security.
The TriLens (expensive, heavy) and big "sausage shaped" ones (eg Firdell Blipper or EchoMax) give decent radar reflections. Of course the Sea-Me active transponders are best if you have continuous power but that's a different thing altogether.
Also having a reflector in bits somewhere below in a locker means it will almost cerrtainly not get used when needed, it should be fixed to the mast.

 

[prv]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is upright. They just give a false sense of security.

...and tick a legal box, which is why I used to put the tubular one back on Kindred Spirit's mast each time I took it off for varnishing

Pete

 

[GraemeS]

If you put two tubular reflectors up does that give twice the reflection?

 

[johnalison]

If you put two tubular reflectors up does that give twice the reflection?

Yes, twice not very much.

 

[lw395]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is nearly upright. They just give a false sense of security.
The TriLens (expensive, heavy) and big "sausage shaped" ones (eg Firdell Blipper or EchoMax) give decent radar reflections. Of course the Sea-Me active transponders are best if you have continuous power but that's a different thing altogether.
Also having a reflector in bits somewhere below in a locker means it will almost cerrtainly not get used when needed, it should be fixed to the mast.

Actually it shows that many people are pretty clueless about radar.
How well is an active ransponder going to work with the digital radar becoming common on fishing boats?

 

[Strolls]

All passive reflectors have been proven to be utter gash by comparison, why not just hoist the saucepans up the flag halliard.

If you have £500 Echo Max is the one. In my humble opinion.

At which point you might as well buy an AIS transponder instead, eh?

:encouragement:

 

[bbg]

...and tick a legal box, which is why I used to put the tubular one back on Kindred Spirit's mast each time I took it off for varnishing

Pete

If you want to tick a legal box you can fix a tubular reflector horizontally under a spreader or use some sticky back and fix it vertically to the front of the mast.

 

[jerrytug]

At which point you might as well buy an AIS transponder instead, eh?

:encouragement:

I don't know if you are joking?

 

[jerrytug]

Actually it shows that many people are pretty clueless about radar.
How well is an active ransponder going to work with the digital radar becoming common on fishing boats?

You mean frequency modulated radar rather than 'digital' I believe, no RTE's available for it yet, it's not so easy to make a RTE for FM radar, but then again FM radar is more likely to pick you up anyway at moderate range.

 

[prv]

If you want to tick a legal box you can fix a tubular reflector horizontally under a spreader or use some sticky back and fix it vertically to the front of the mast.

Screws rather than sticky-back, but yes, that's what Kindred Spirit's previous owner had done. I took it off each year for varnishing and then put it back on again after. Hardly visible up there (yellowed acrylic against varnished spruce) and didn't get in the way of anything. So why not?

Pete

 

[Kelpie]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is nearly upright. They just give a false sense of security.
The TriLens (expensive, heavy) and big "sausage shaped" ones (eg Firdell Blipper or EchoMax) give decent radar reflections. Of course the Sea-Me active transponders are best if you have continuous power but that's a different thing altogether.
Also having a reflector in bits somewhere below in a locker means it will almost cerrtainly not get used when needed, it should be fixed to the mast.

That wasn't quite my reading of it. The octahedral one seemed alright, actually, not massively worse than the more expensive passive ones. The plastimo tube was indeed awful, and that was with the 4" version on test- the 2" one is much more common and presumably next to useless.

 

[lw395]

You mean frequency modulated radar rather than 'digital' I believe, no RTE's available for it yet, it's not so easy to make a RTE for FM radar, but then again FM radar is more likely to pick you up anyway at moderate range.

Actually I did mean digital radar. A lot of sets appearing on fishing boats and similar sized motor vessels.
Why do you say FM radar is more likely to pick you up?
Isn't the RCS of your yacht much the same relative to the sea clutter regardless of the modulation?

 

[bedouin]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is nearly upright. They just give a false sense of security.
The TriLens (expensive, heavy) and big "sausage shaped" ones (eg Firdell Blipper or EchoMax) give decent radar reflections. Of course the Sea-Me active transponders are best if you have continuous power but that's a different thing altogether.
Also having a reflector in bits somewhere below in a locker means it will almost cerrtainly not get used when needed, it should be fixed to the mast.

No it doesn't.

it shows that things like the octahedral work well most of the time but have weaknesses. Other than those silly little tubes they all work and have significant benefit so are better than nothing - but none guarantee that you will be seen in all conditions.

All this talk about how well they work shouldn't hide the fact that ANY radar reflector is better than nothing.

For the OP I think an Octahedral is the best option. For the sailing most of us do we very rarely need one - I think I used mine about twice in 5 years sailing before I fitted an Echomax.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Qinetic report, which followed the MAIB report on the Ouzo tragedy, showed how USELESS the octahedral and tubular reflectors are, even when the boat is nearly upright. They just give a false sense of security.

Although that report did useful work in measuring cross-sections, it was woefully inadequate when it came to predicting performance in use, because it used a very simplistic theoretical model rather than attempting any practical assessment.