Racing Heel

[clutters]

Why do racers tend to endure more heel than cruisers? Is it simply because though not perfectly efficient going windward with extreme heel they would be under powered going downwind and time to Reef/shake outweighs efficiency gains?

 

[bbg]

Better to be overpowered in the gusts than underpowered in the lulls. And what you said about having lots of sail areas downwind.

Rule of thumb: when in doubt about which sail to use, use the bigger one.

Having said that, excessive heel is generally not fast.

 

[Ingwe]

Why do racers tend to endure more heel than cruisers? Is it simply because though not perfectly efficient going windward with extreme heel they would be under powered going downwind and time to Reef/shake outweighs efficiency gains?

I don't think you will find many racer's who are any good allowing the boat to heel much as in most boats it is very slow. The only exceptions to this are some of the classic yachts that need to heel to increase effective waterline length and the modern offshore racers with lots of beam aft and twin rudders where you are heeling the boat to reduce wetted surface area.

If your only sailing a reasonably short distance there is very rarely a need to reef the main as you should be able to flatten it enough that it is hardly generating any power at all - I think the most wind I have sailed without reefing the main was about 40 gusting over 45 knots with full main and our number 4 jib (we knew we weren't going to have to go downwind) and we would only have been heeling excessively when the wind angle shifted at the beginning of the gusts.

 

[Woodlouse]

Most boats have an optimum angle of heel, one that reduces wetted surface area and maximises waterline length.

 

[clutters]

That's an interesting point on flattening the sail, thank you. Not reefing at 40 knots is astonishing to me, if there's ever an opportunity to see that in practice let me know. As a slow cruiser I'm unlikely to keep up a full sail much above 20knots but certainly, though i'm no clown, my trim skills aren't nearly as sharp as yours.

My question was raised after talking to a number of race crews over the years who seem consistently proud of their heel angle and their submerged toerails. I guess this is a bit of bravado but was curious as to the reasoning knowing well that more sail does not always mean more sail. It's a cruisers perspective really as i don't currently race other than some longer offshore which is a different story altogether as the races are often A-B or simply longer and thus the gains of an efficient sail setup is more appreciable.

 

[flaming]

My question was raised after talking to a number of race crews over the years who seem consistently proud of their heel angle and their submerged toerails.

Did they win much....?

There aren't many boats where submerging the toerail is quick. As Ingwe said above, flattening the main and "blading it out" will get you upwind in buckets of breeze on short courses. Though I have to say 30 gusting 35 knots is the most I've tried that in.

This would be a typical heel angle for a modern IRC boat - a JPK 1080 in this case.

Some older boats that have less form stability and rely more on keel weight will tolerate a slightly larger angle.

 

[savageseadog]

That's an interesting point on flattening the sail, thank you. Not reefing at 40 knots is astonishing to me, if there's ever an opportunity to see that in practice let me know. As a slow cruiser I'm unlikely to keep up a full sail much above 20knots but certainly, though i'm no clown, my trim skills aren't nearly as sharp as yours.

My question was raised after talking to a number of race crews over the years who seem consistently proud of their heel angle and their submerged toerails. I guess this is a bit of bravado but was curious as to the reasoning knowing well that more sail does not always mean more sail. It's a cruisers perspective really as i don't currently race other than some longer offshore which is a different story altogether as the races are often A-B or simply longer and thus the gains of an efficient sail setup is more appreciable.

We sail without a reef in high wind speeds. It's a case of having lots of crew hiked on the rail, each corner of the main fully stretched,Cunningham on hard, backstay on hard, mainsheet trimmer playing traveller and sheet, kicker hard on, helm feathering up into gusts and waves.

 

[clutters]

Did they win much....?

So they claim, winter series successes. Great pictures and information, thank you. It all tallies with my understanding so feel a little better I'm not going mad, I will make more enquiries as to their logic and let you know their thoughts.

 

[Judders]

I'm not convinced there are many boats that would not be faster with a reef than without in 40 knots.

Last year we managed to beat on of the most successful boats in the Solent on a 55 mile race that was on the wind for 40 miles, all of it over 20 knots and a good chunk over 30 knots.

I was having a beer with the owner of the other boat a week later and disappointed to learn he hadn't been onboard. "How did you do it?" he asked. Simple I replied, we had two reefs and your crew didn't have any.

And that's two late 1970's designed upwind specialists.

I recall reading an article on the Audi Med Cup when it was in vogue a few years ago. The guys on the rail of the TP52s had a 'heelometer' among the instruments on the mast. The sole job of many of them was to keep it as near as damn it 15 degrees.

At the other ebnd of the spectrum, I was helming an old long keel classic one Thursday night and it was clear the wind was going to come on to blow about 25kts. "Have you got a smaller headsail" I asked. "No need" was the reply, "I'll just nip below and close the coach roof portholes". He did, we did the whole of the upwind bit with the side decks covered and we did win the race, with no meat on the rail either.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

If you look at Flaming's post and the piccie of Leon, one noteworthy point is the angle of the tiller. Or to be accurate, the lack of an angle. There is no easier way of slowing a boat than excessive heel leading to a high angle of rudder and tubulence astern.

With a masthead rig I find it more difficult to flatten the main so if I have to constantly apply serious rudder to keep on course, then I reef. Toerail in the water and 15 degrees of rudder is slow in racing. And when cruising , SWMBO doesnt allow it.

 

[lw395]

If you look at Flaming's post and the piccie of Leon, one noteworthy point is the angle of the tiller. Or to be accurate, the lack of an angle. There is no easier way of slowing a boat than excessive heel leading to a high angle of rudder and tubulence astern.

With a masthead rig I find it more difficult to flatten the main so if I have to constantly apply serious rudder to keep on course, then I reef. Toerail in the water and 15 degrees of rudder is slow in racing. And when cruising , SWMBO doesnt allow it.

Likewise the green boat.
A ballast keel only generates righting moment when the boat is heeled. Righting moment=power. Many older boats will heel a fair amount without needing a lot of rudder. But only with correct sail trim.
Dinghies on the other hand generally go best upright.
Yachts with lots of fat or other moving ballast are somewhere in between....

 

[Ingwe]

I wasn't really suggesting that using full main in a lot of wind is necessarily faster than sailing with a reef, just that it is possible to sail a boat without heeling or flogging the main in a lot of wind.

I suspect in pure boat speed terms there will probably not be any difference between reefing and not reefing, but the crew and especially the helm of an unreefed boat will be working and concentrating a lot harder to avoid broaching so over a longer distance reefing is generally preferable to avoid fatigue.

 

[lw395]

You can sail without a reef in a lot of wind, if the wind is steady enough. If it's shifting faster than you can trim or steer, or if the waves are knocking the boat around too much, sooner or later you will get flattened.
In the limit, you need power to get through the waves, and you need that power low down to avoid being knocked flat.
Beyond that, you can only generalise so much, because boats vary a lot and seastate varies more.

 

[Neil_Y]

We will often have the main flogging in gusts upwind, completely de powered first and twisted off (kicker eased which seems to go against one persons views)
Heel angle and how much canvas depends so much on the type of boat it's impossible to quote figures for wind speed unless you relate it to a particular class. When you get the gusts it's the yachts that handle them best that keep speed and height, the near broach and loss of rudder grip is slow.

 

[Slowtack]

If you dont carry full main upwind (even if inefficient) you wont have it available downwind (even more inefficient}

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I wasn't really suggesting that using full main in a lot of wind is necessarily faster than sailing with a reef, just that it is possible to sail a boat without heeling or flogging the main in a lot of wind.

I suspect in pure boat speed terms there will probably not be any difference between reefing and not reefing, but the crew and especially the helm of an unreefed boat will be working and concentrating a lot harder to avoid broaching so over a longer distance reefing is generally preferable to avoid fatigue.

This is an interesting question of physics but with no clear general answer. If you can achieve the same angle of heel both reefed and feathering a full sail then by definition you have the same sideways force on the boat. But it isnt that which makes the boat go - its the force component forward that matters and that depends on the shape of the main reefed and feathered since the contribution of the gib will be the same in both cases. Plus of course wind strength varies so reefing can leave you short of sail in the lulls.

My gut feel is that in a fractional rig where de powering is easier and more effective, its likely faster to depower if that allows you to keep heeling to sensible levels. In a masthead rig I am less sure.

 

[lw395]

If you dont carry full main upwind (even if inefficient) you wont have it available downwind (even more inefficient}

Depends how quickly you can shake out a reef and how much you slow down while doing so.
I crewed for someone who was keen to experiment with this on a 3 person dayboat which we were racing 2 up, (or 2.5 up when a small person turned up).
We could reef or unreef very quickly once we'd sorted the systems. Halyard on a pre-set tensioning tackle, 2 tackles for tack and clew.
But, it didn't win us any races. Didn't lose us any either I suspect.
Dropping the sail down the track on a fractional rig completely changes the leach tension - mast bend relationship so we lost a lot of flattening of the top half of the sail. And the jib could not be changed.
A flattening reef and more rake than a rakish thing is another approach....

 

[lw395]

This is an interesting question of physics but with no clear general answer. If you can achieve the same angle of heel both reefed and feathering a full sail then by definition you have the same sideways force on the boat.......

Actually the same heeling moment </pedant>
Un-reefed, less force, higher up, unless the top of the main is doing nothing? And if the top flogs at all it will be adding drag as well as heeling moment.
So maybe it depends whether the top will feather smoothly without flogging in a draggy way? Some sails seem better than others like this? Full length battens a good thing?

Another thought is that in some races, it's better to have a reefed rig, so you can confidently work tactically instead of e.g. not wanting to tack right now I'll just get through this gust.....?
While other windy races are less tactical?

 

[Foolish Muse]

When I interviewed a Figaro Beneteau II racer for my singlehanded book he mentioned that they don't even have reef points on their mainsail. He had sailed upwind in 55 knots! They just twist off the top of the sails.

When I'm singlehanding my Olson 30 against a fully crewed Olson 30, the biggest problem with my excessive heal is leeway drift. In a stiff wind I'll be drifting 50 yards to leeward for every 300 yards of sailing. It's really discouraging.

 

[flaming]

When I interviewed a Figaro Beneteau II racer for my singlehanded book he mentioned that they don't even have reef points on their mainsail. He had sailed upwind in 55 knots! They just twist off the top of the sails.

When I'm singlehanding my Olson 30 against a fully crewed Olson 30, the biggest problem with my excessive heal is leeway drift. In a stiff wind I'll be drifting 50 yards to leeward for every 300 yards of sailing. It's really discouraging.

Figaro 2's do have reefs, and they use them.