Princess 43

[jfm]

Crikey Kashurst I wouldn't want 6mm sq on an 11kw genset, installed anywhere let alone in an engine room. But I agree with you that 38 amps and 46 amps are going to use the same cable, given that you have to buy cable in preset jumps being iirc 6 then 10 then 16mm sq

 

[kashurst]

good point - forgot the engine room bit. 10mm2 would be better depending on the insulation.

 

[Nick_H]

Here's the Seakeeper official test report for a Model 5 fitted to a Princess 43. Results look good.

http://seakeeper.com/uploads/documents/sea-trials/647/st_princess_43_1xsk5_(4.29.2015).pdf

 

[Magnum]

Hi Magnum

I would love to read about your experiences and have them posted to the process owners club website. Please let me know if you are interested.

Re, this'd that have installed seakeeper, it would be great to hear how the install went and the difference v cost, would be of interest to many princess owners.

Thanks



Mark

Happy to help Mark

 

[Magnum]

Quick update.

Spent the morning with PMYS picking all fabrics etc. It all went very well surprisingly.

Re: the induction hob load and generator, Princess have recommended the Onan 11 kW model which in maximum load situations will still require some power management. I'm not worried about that as I really cannot see a situation where all systems would be on to the max at the same time (please see attachment). The 13.5kW genny will not fit.

I've upgraded the 20KG Delta anchor to a 25KG stainless version because I think 20KG is a bit light and I love stainless anchors

40m of chain is standard with an option for 50m, but when I asked for 60m (galvanised) due to the tidal range here in the Channel Islands Princess wanted me to sign a waiver due to additional weight - 22KG over 50m - and locker space. Clearly if there isn't enough space that's the end of that but I cannot believe 22KG of extra chain is going to have the slightest effect on bow height in a boat weighing 15 tonnes+ (closer to 15.5 with the Seakeeper). I've queried this.

The only other issue is that I requested an upgraded bowthruster from 80KgF to 100KgF and was quoted £5,800. Odd as this is just an upgrade and adding a sternthruster is £4,985. I've queried this too. There is an upgraded bowthruster and sternthruster option, both variable speed with hold function for £7,560 but I'm not really bothered about a stern thruster.

That's it for now. I think the hull will be moulded soon. I'll do a victory visit and post some pics when there's something to see

 

[kashurst]

sounds like the gennie loading should be fine - as you say unlikely to have all that on at the same time
have you considered a Rocna anchor (in stainless obviously) - great if its weedy bottom. I swapped from a delta to a rocna and its like putting a handbrake on in a car. The boat just stops dead every time.
anchor chain wise maybe they are worried about the height of the pile of chain? the weight won't matter
look forward to pics - lovely boat.

 

[jfm]

Hi Magnum. Yup I agree that the weight point is daft but I can see that princess are worried about the height of the chain pile, and perhaps you should be. The solution is stainless steel chain. It just falls like cream into the bottom of the locker, compared with old galvanised chain that piles up into a cone with an angle of repose much more than 45 degrees. I think I'd let princess fit the shortest amount of galvanised then just buy 80m of s/steel chain

The 100kgf thruster runs on the same 185mm tunnel as the 80kgf, so the price increase should be something like the list price difference between the 2 items, which is not £5800. This problem you're facing is exactly why I haven't really got engaged with Princess about a 75 or 82. I know they would burn up hours of my time with crazy pricing proposals on each and every change from the standard spec, and I cant find the time or inclination to get into all that

 

[Magnum]

Interesting point re: stainless chain jfm. Is the difference really that huge?

Re: upgraded bow thruster I have just done some research and I believe this model fitted to the 43 as standard.

Side-Power SE80/185T-12V - http://side-power.com/produkt/19045/se80-tunnel-thruster-12v/

It is rated at 80Kg of thrust at 10.5v, needs 550 CCA battery capacity, uses a 185mm tunnel and is suitable for boats 35 - 48 feet long.

The 100KgF version of this thruster is the following model.

Side-Power SE100/185T-12V - http://side-power.com/produkt/19023/se100-tunnel-thruster-12v/

It is rated at 100Kg of thrust at 10.5V, needs 750 CCA battery capacity, uses a 185mm tunnel and is suitable for boats 35 - 55 feet long.

In summary the 100KgF version is 25% more powerful, needs 36% more battery capacity and uses the same sized tunnel as the 80KgF version. The battery capacity requirements need to be confirmed as adequate as there is a substantial difference. It may be that the standard batteries have enough capacity but it is worth making sure. That notwithstanding I believe it is a much more sensible option for the P43.

Now onto cost. A quick Google of these 2 models revealed the following prices :-

SE80/185T-12V - £1,661.35 - http://mastsandmotors.co.uk/bow-ste...er/dc-electric-thrusters/se80-185t-12v-detail

SE100/185T-12V - £2,250.71 - http://mastsandmotors.co.uk/bow-ste...r/dc-electric-thrusters/se100-185t-12v-detail

That's a price difference of just £589.36. Did someone at Princess put the decimal point in the wrong place?

 

[MapisM]

LOL, you'd expect that if it's a genuine mistake you should have 50% chances of paying one tenth rather than 10 times, but for some reason I've yet to find a boatbuilder who makes a mistake with the decimal point that isn't in shifting it to the right...
Just a thought, maybe they must upgrade the cables size too? Regardless, the difference is obviously silly.

Re. the chain locker, no idea about its size in the P43, but fwiw this summer I checked together with Hurricane the space in his P67, before he upgraded to a longer and heavier chain, and I was impressed.
IIRC he roughly doubled the chain length/volume, but he could have put even more.
Completely different boat of course, but a chain locker made by the same builder that can't hold 20% more chain sounds daft - also because 60m still is not a lot by all means!

 

[jfm]

+1 to what MapisM says about decimal points. I've had some early discussions on buying a big princess and the prices they have quoted for changing things from standard spec just make pull down my shutters. As is happening to you, a chunk of the buyer's life gets consumed exchanging emails about truly daft prices - life is too short for that.

Yup the difference of ss chain over galvanised really is that big. As you know galvanised can form a steep cone. Stainless chain flows like a liquid in comparison. Maximum angle of repose is more like 30 degrees from the horizontal as opposed to 30 degrees from vertical with galv chain. AOTBE you can wind a lot (1.5x?) more s/s chain than galv chain into a locker before the top of the pile jams on the winch

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Completely different boat of course, but a chain locker made by the same builder that can't hold 20% more chain sounds daft - also because 60m still is not a lot by all means!

Agreed especially in the Channel Islands where there are 10 - 12m tides so you might be in 5m of water at low tide but 6hrs later you're in 15-17m of water and 60m of chain is barely a 4 x scope

 

[Magnum]

+1 to what MapisM says about decimal points. I've had some early discussions on buying a big princess and the prices they have quoted for changing things from standard spec just make pull down my shutters. As is happening to you, a chunk of the buyer's life gets consumed exchanging emails about truly daft prices - life is too short for that.

Yup the difference of ss chain over galvanised really is that big. As you know galvanised can form a steep cone. Stainless chain flows like a liquid in comparison. Maximum angle of repose is more like 30 degrees from the horizontal as opposed to 30 degrees from vertical with galv chain. AOTBE you can wind a lot (1.5x?) more s/s chain than galv chain into a locker before the top of the pile jams on the winch

Actually jfm this time round up until now I have been astonished at how "real world" Princess's options prices are. A huge difference from our 42 and 67 days. I think the thruster upgrade quote is a mistake. It doesn't fit with their other thruster upgrade options. We'll see!

Thanks for the tip on SS chain. Pricey stuff though!

 

[markdj]

Happy to help Mark

Sure thing, awesome. If you want to fire over an intro with a photo to get the ball rolling. I could make you an editor to the poc website too if you're familiar with WordPress, you could just put it up yourself. Whatever you want.

Mark @ Stronge.org.uk

 

[jfm]

Actually jfm this time round up until now I have been astonished at how "real world" Princess's options prices are.

Ah, that's good to hear!

 

[Anders_P42]

Actually jfm this time round up until now I have been astonished at how "real world" Princess's options prices are. A huge difference from our 42 and 67 days. I think the thruster upgrade quote is a mistake. It doesn't fit with their other thruster upgrade options. We'll see!

Thanks for the tip on SS chain. Pricey stuff though!

You could also look at better quality grade 70 chain, dropping a size allowing more chain for same weight / space. Probably still cheaper than stainless.

 

[Magnum]

Actually jfm this time round up until now I have been astonished at how "real world" Princess's options prices are. A huge difference from our 42 and 67 days. I think the thruster upgrade quote is a mistake. It doesn't fit with their other thruster upgrade options. We'll see!

Thanks for the tip on SS chain. Pricey stuff though!

Just confirmed that Princess made a mistake and quote for an upgraded variable thruster, not simply the upgraded thruster as requested. Correct additional cost is £715 so it's been added to the spec

 

[MapisM]

Blimey, so the other 5 grands were just for the progressive control version of the same brand/power b/t!?!
When I suggested to someone on another thread to go for a progressive b/t, I expected it to add around 10/15% to the cost, if that...
Definitely not worth more, that's for sure!

 

[Magnum]

Blimey, so the other 5 grands were just for the progressive control version of the same brand/power b/t!?!
When I suggested to someone on another thread to go for a progressive b/t, I expected it to add around 10/15% to the cost, if that...
Definitely not worth more, that's for sure!

I think the bow thruster itself is different too, but I agree it's a huge price difference.

 

[Magnum]

Resurrecting this thread.

MAGNUM (V) is in build first 2 weeks in April. I'm flying out on 8th. Will post some pics when I get back

 

[yprocopis]

Hello, is there a Princess 43 owner or anyone who knows what windlass the Princess 43 has? I am pretty sure it is a Lewmar V3 with 10mm chain but is it with gipsy 002 (DIN 766) or 003 (ISO)? thanks