Princess 32 - Failed Survey

[billskip]

Where do you intend to use the
boat ?...at sea, on the river tidal?non tidal? I had a P32 on the Thames, nice boats but found that with family or guests it would be better boat with aft cabin if overnight.

 

[iwalm1979]

For the first year at least in the Lincoln to Nottingham sort of territory - Probably looking at keeping the boat in Newark, with a view to going up/down the Trent both ways.

Not really looking at heading to Sea at anytime soon, although being able to relocate to the broads [which I gather a lot of people do in convoy from Boston->Wells then round to Yarmouth] would be useful as we'd like to explore that part of the world a bit further once we are up to speed on everything [certainly not first year!]

 

[billskip]

Well if its your first boat I will be surprised if you're not thinking seriously about upgrading after a couple of years if you enjoy boating, so resale must be seriously considered on initial purchase imho.
Haggle hard and pay minimum for best you can get an keep reserve cash for upgrade....there are some tidy boats about ,and consider initially maybe single engine, this could keep costs down on a starter boat, not many buy their ideal boat first time.

 

[iwalm1979]

The idea of our original sub 20k budget really was to make sure we got on with this as a hobby - We figured this would get us into things but if we didn't make decent use of it we could look to probably recoup a decent proportion of the boat cost [figured most boats in the sub 20k range are probably somewhere near the bottom end of their value]. Obviously insurance, marina fees and such are write offs but we can afford to lose that - A big part of this is trying to get away at weekends with the boys and keeping them off computers/screens a bit [if thats possible!].

For a family cruiser in that range are there better options than the Princess boats? We might have got a bit blinkered since we went to three marinas and saw Princesses [all in pretty good condition] in all of them [P33s and P32s]. Size wise is a 32/33ft the sort of boat people would recommend?

 

[Alicatt]

Hi all - Thanks for the replies and I get there are two sides to this. We liked the boat and it is in very very good cosmetic condition [both in and out] and the survey really only highlights this transom problem as a potential issue. That said, ballpark estimates for repair in the boatyard are 6k [if we assume the worst, don't have the core results yet] and with a boat value of around 15k that's a high proportion of cost. If the vendor is prepared to move to cover it then on one hand it might end up making a very nice boat, but its clearly a big chunk of money and time wise I'm guessing it could take 3 months to get done.

If we had to rethink has anyone got any pointers of where to start? We saw a couple of Princess 33's and 32's and really liked this one, but if it ends up 'not to be' then we are looking for something in that 15 to 20k range that will suit a family of four (2 adults and a couple of young boys).

Appreciate all the help so far!

On our little boat which we bought very cheap needs a bit of work to bring it up to what we would like, we are looking at spending about 1/3 of the purchase price of the boat on materials to replace those that are worn out etc. While we did not spend as much as what the boat you are looking at, it is still a significant chunk of change for a "cheap" boat and we are doing the work between the wife and myself.

We are already thinking on something a little larger than the one we just bought last September going up to maybe 10m from the 7.5 we have at the moment, or the wife offered the opinion of putting in a larger engine seeing as the hull on our boat is a semi displacement with a shallow V, with 13hp she does 6knots at displacement speed and one we found out about does 16knots with 50hp - at least that would keep the kids from borrowing it as they don't have a licence

 

[Greg2]

Having a budget I fine and might be necessary (although it sounds as though it is a choice) but it can restrict your choice significantly.

We bought our first boat around 2001/2002 and had a budget in mind until a mate took me to LH Jones on the Great Ouse and I saw and fell for a very tidy Princess 32. We thought hard and we bought it at circa 46% more than we thought we might spend. Reality was that there was very little decent stuff available within our original budget but we liked the P32 and that meant that we enjoyed our early boating days.

In reality a £15k - £20k budget puts you in a worse position than we were all those years ago and restricts your choice significantly so you run the risk of buying something that isn’t actually that easy to sell. I would also say that whilst I understand your rationale for staying sub-£20k (recouping costs if you don’t like it) the same would actually apply to a slightly more expensive boat, which might also be more attractive to a potential purchaser.

 

[superheat6k]

As others have mentioned a first boat is typically owned for 1 - 2 seasons, and then with this specimen (and after spending much of those 2 seasons fixing the thing - and at least doubling any figures here mentioned so far), you will then want to sell it either to move on to a boat that better suits your requirements and wallet, but if your potentially awful experience is really poor, to simply take up golf.

So the problems you have now discovered (and which presumably were not disclosed) will be discovered by the next would be buyer. You end up stuck with a boat no one wants. As suggested a £15k boat that already requires £6k spending is already damn close to being an economic write off. One engine failure and you are definitely in negative equity.

When you started your search for your dream boat along the way you likely acquired a pair of rose tinted specs (she's in very very good condition) you said. Time to throw these away and find something without the horror stories. I wouldn't walk away - I would be on an express train !

 

[billskip]

I think many of us allowed the heart rule the head, it's an experience that you say... I won't do that again ...but you will...bit like second marriage.....
As said I had a Princess 32 (jeez it was 50 yrs ago) and they are lovely boats, mine was only a couple of year's old back in the 70's. Try looking at Freman 33 or Birchwood clasic33 ( but beware many Birchwoods were bought in kit form and home fitting out) a nice moonraker 36 went for less than 18k ,but 36 maybe a little above your desired size....

 

[PCUK]

15k for a Princess 32 is way over the top even for a good one. I think you need to look around a lot more before committing.

 

[oldgit]

Several boats that could be purchased in that £20K plus around 10M.
Need to get your skates on as the best time to buy is mid winter or at least before the first slightly above freezing spring weekend brings out the first flush of buyers and sellers prices start to get "optimistic." before reality kicks in around autumn.
Best time to view on any tight budget is with an inch of snow on the sales pontoon or at least a bit of frost.
In perfect world its shafts all the way down but in the real world a pair of well seviced outdrives may be the best you can hope for.
NO petrols, there is a reason all petrol boats are immaculate with virtually no hours and about 15 previous very short term owners
Suggest ....
Profile 33 Last of the craftsman built boats.
Princess 30 DS. Do like these ,loads around, singles and twins and loads of engine options, Modern exterior.
Princess 33 Pretty good build hull but the descent to chipboard interiors has begun.
Brooms Just like your great grannies "best room" solid boat with added net curtains.
Seamasters.
Freeman 33
Cleopatra

Location.
Further away from the "LoadsaMoney" south the better pricewise, but then you will have to travel to some God Farsaken Gulag to view it and then get it back home to civilization.
One weekend in Hartlepool and other in Conwy put any thoughts of viewing anything on a Scottish Loch beyond the pale.

Prices, a boat is only worth what somebody will pay for it , chum just bought a really tidy well kept and well serviced boat for £28K.....broker listing was £37.000, engines recently removed and rebuilt.
Looking at everything / anything sub £30K .
Rule of thumb, out of 10 boats you look at, 7 will be amusingly over priced heaps, two will be OK, only one of the two will accept what you are prepared to pay, ideal situation is to have both the seller and buyer equally unhappy with the agreed price.

 

[Bouba]

The best time to buy is at the end of the season when the owner is contemplating whether it’s worth paying for a whole winter’s storage

 

[Alicatt]

The best time to buy is at the end of the season when the owner is contemplating whether it’s worth paying for a whole winter’s storage

That’s when we bought Casper, original asking was 10k and we bought for 6k and budgeted about 2.5k for renovations, so far we have spent just about 1k in materials.

 

[srm]

If the vendor is prepared to move to cover it then on one hand it might end up making a very nice boat, but its clearly a big chunk of money and time wise I'm guessing it could take 3 months to get done.

When I worked as a hydrographic surveyor there was a "rule of thumb" to pricing contracts. Work out how long the contract will take at a sensible pace and add in weather delays. Double the total time and add a few more days/weeks depending on the length of the contract to allow for the unforeseen. This formula usually turned out to be correct.

As a boat owner I have found the same applies to any estimate for work on the boat, DIY or by a yard.

If you want to use the boat this year I suggest you look elsewhere. Cosmetics can be relatively easily made to look nice, structural work on any boat takes time.

 

[iwalm1979]

Thanks for all your replies - We ended up with cores done today which came back very dry/intact with very little sign of damp at all (several taken across the transom, and as proper cores about 20mm or so in diameter, not little tiny drill holes). Does show that to an extent you need to check these things out rather than just accept the black and white - Also shows how difficult it is to survey something like this, but it could have very easily have gone the other way and we could have been looking at a write off.

 

[Momac]

Sounds like a case of surveyor not using/interpreting the results of his moisture gauge correctly. Or perhaps his gauge is faulty.

 

[Elessar]

Thanks for all your replies - We ended up with cores done today which came back very dry/intact with very little sign of damp at all (several taken across the transom, and as proper cores about 20mm or so in diameter, not little tiny drill holes). Does show that to an extent you need to check these things out rather than just accept the black and white - Also shows how difficult it is to survey something like this, but it could have very easily have gone the other way and we could have been looking at a write off.

Pictures needed now!
Presume you are buying it?

 

[billskip]

Presume you are buying it?

No...its got holes in the transom....

 

[oldgit]

Next.............what engines ?
A " Friend " wants to buy a boat.

Post #2

 

[Bouba]

I would go back to the surveyor armed with the cores and photos of the job...and see if he changes his opinion

 

[billskip]

No...its got holes in the transom....

I would go back to the surveyor armed with the cores and photos of the job...and see if he changes his opinion

Yes, by moving the decimal point a few places to the left....