Portuguese residency - current situation - advice needed

[nortada]

Sorry it was not my intent to insinuate anything. I think the rumour has its basis in the Portugal link I gave.

"Register your UK licence with the Instituto da Mobilidade e de Transportes (IMT) (in Portuguese) within 60 days of taking up residence, or face a fine.
You can exchange an expired UK licence for up to 2 years after the expiration date, but you will not be able to drive until you have a valid document. After 2 years, you will have to pass a Portuguese driving test."

Simple solution - don’t drive in Portugal, where public transport is excellent and so keep your U.K. license for the U.K., where unfortunately public transport is almost non-existent.

 

[RAI]

As those of us who have been in Portugal for some time know, it is often nigh impossibly to establish ‘the law’ so rumour is often the only law?

Many of the Portuguese officials make the law up as the go along.?

It’s a national sport so why shouldn’t we all join in?

I appreciate that, but those links are the UK government's view / advice .....

OK, it's this "get Brexit done" government's advice. Shades of the IMB?

 

[nortada]

I appreciate that, but those links are the UK government's view / advice .....

OK, it's this "get Brexit done" government's advice. Shades of the IMB?

When it comes to advice on Portuguese law and life in Portugal, I take about as much notice of the British Government as I do the RYA & CA but must admit the British Embassy in Lisbon is right on the ball - but they are diplomats and civil servants rather than self-serving MPs.

Plus the lovely Marta is good sight for this old mans eyes.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=817580762405640

 

[RAI]

Simple solution - don’t drive in Portugal, where public transport is excellent and so keep your U.K. license for the U.K., where unfortunately public transport is almost non-existent.

Not so simple should you get caught out driving (a hire car say) with a residency certificate and a non Portuguese license in a couple of year's time.
According to that link, in Portugal, you have 60 days to register your British driving license after obtaining residency.
I got caught because a copper put my name into their database and found me to be a registered resident - but not in Portugal.

 

[RAI]

When it comes to advice on Portuguese law and life in Portugal, I take about as much notice of the British Government as I do the RYA & CA but must admit the British Embassy in Lisbon is right on the ball - but they are diplomats and civil servants rather than self-serving MPs.

Granted, but I doubt that those self-serving MPs had anything to do with writing the Gov.UK web pages, too much like work, they left it to their civil servants, I suspect.
Interested though, how different is the BE in Lisbon on its advice compared to their own governments advice?

 

[nortada]

Not so simple should you get caught out driving (a hire car say) with a residency certificate and a non Portuguese license in a couple of year's time.
According to that link, in Portugal, you have 60 days to register your British driving license after obtaining residency.
I got caught because a copper put my name into their database and found me to be a registered resident - but not in Portugal.

As said before, don’t drive in Portugal but if you are driving a hire car, you are a ‘visitor’ driving on U.K. license. If you are carrying your residency permit, you have just brought the consequences down on yourself.

Didn’t realise we had criminals in Liveaboard Link.?. Thought they were all restricted to The Lounge and Current Affairs?

 

[greeny]

Sorry it was not my intent to insinuate anything. I think the rumour has its basis in the Portugal link I gave.

"Register your UK licence with the Instituto da Mobilidade e de Transportes (IMT) (in Portuguese) within 60 days of taking up residence, or face a fine.
You can exchange an expired UK licence for up to 2 years after the expiration date, but you will not be able to drive until you have a valid document. After 2 years, you will have to pass a Portuguese driving test."

No Problem RAI.
The rumour doing the rounds 6 months ago was that the test would have to be retaken if people didn't exchange their license before January 2021. Clearly not true as per your quote. Many of these rumours are started and spread by the individuals who profit from assisting stressed expats get their residencias and driving licenses etc. I've heard of people paying up to 750 euros for residency and last week someone paid 350 to have their driving license details sent to IMT for exchange by one of these people.

 

[nortada]

No Problem RAI.
The rumour doing the rounds 6 months ago was that the test would have to be retaken if people didn't exchange their license before January 2021. Clearly not true as per your quote. Many of these rumours are started and spread by the individuals who profit from assisting stressed expats get their residencias and driving licenses etc. I've heard of people paying up to 750 euros for residency and last week someone paid 350 to have their driving license details sent to IMT for exchange by one of these people.

Name and shame?

 

[RAI]

As said before, don’t drive in Portugal but if you are driving a hire car, you are a ‘visitor’ driving on U.K. license. If you are carrying your residency permit, you have just brought the consequences down on yourself.

Didn’t realise we had criminals in Liveaboard Link.?. Thought they were all restricted to The Lounge and Current Affairs?

Remember the databases the police can access, if they are in the mood.
The Schengen database will know if you are within the 90/180 day rule.
The residency database will have your Portuguese residence registered.
I don't think they are criminal offences, but the worst would be a fine, and after a couple of years, a new driving test maybe.

 

[greeny]

Name and shame?

I can't - don't know their names. Well I know the expat names but not the fixers names. There's lots of them around now though. Jumping on the band wagon. I've no problem with most of them if they're doing a job for a fair reward, it's just that every now and then you get these reports. I used one to help get my license done 19 months ago, before the big rush. She charged me 75 euros including the license exchange fee of 30 euros and saved me at least one trip to Faro and a long queue outside the door on 2 occasions. Then on my one required visit, went in with me and did all the talking etc. For me it was money well spent but the rates have gone up now.

 

[webcraft]

For me, the driving license is irrelevant as I don't need to drive in Portugal, and if I did need to drive a hire car on an odd occasion I would have passport and UK license but no residency certificate aboard.

Re. The S1 and keeping it just in case I need it - am I to understand that just asking for/getting one will not in itself trigger anything, that it has to be 'activated' by being handed in in Portugal?

- W

 

[Graham376]

Sorry it was not my intent to insinuate anything. I think the rumour has its basis in the Portugal link I gave.

"Register your UK licence with the Instituto da Mobilidade e de Transportes (IMT) (in Portuguese) within 60 days of taking up residence, or face a fine.
You can exchange an expired UK licence for up to 2 years after the expiration date, but you will not be able to drive until you have a valid document. After 2 years, you will have to pass a Portuguese driving test."

I applied for my Portuguese driving license in February this year and was already a few years into my 10 year permanent residence. No queries or threats of fines. My wife is a dual citizen and still drives on her UK license.

 

[nortada]

Granted, but I doubt that those self-serving MPs had anything to do with writing the Gov.UK web pages, too much like work, they left it to their civil servants, I suspect.
Interested though, how different is the BE in Lisbon on its advice compared to their own governments advice?

Thought the Gov.U.K. was full of MPs, directing their civil servants.

Possibly should add, I haven’t received any specific advice from HMG on life in Portugal post Brexit. The BE advise appears well thought through and presented by those (Portuguese) in the know.

My experience, prior to Blair attempting to politicise the civil service, was diplomatic advice, if not contradicting the government, often differed and was usually more accurate.

Experienced men at the front and on the ground, rather than an MP parachuted in to spout the latest party line and all that.

 

[greeny]

For me, the driving license is irrelevant as I don't need to drive in Portugal, and if I did need to drive a hire car on an odd occasion I would have passport and UK license but no residency certificate aboard.

Re. The S1 and keeping it just in case I need it - am I to understand that just asking for/getting one will not in itself trigger anything, that it has to be 'activated' by being handed in in Portugal?

- W

Obtaining the S1 has not triggered anything for me with regard to the UK nhs. I am still registered with my uk doctor. I can't say whether it should, but the fact is it hasn't happened yet and it was issued to me in late 2019. The S1 certificate comes signed and stamped and with the details of the UK NHS overseas office address on it. There is a section that is filled in by them that contains your personal details and in there is my address in Portugal. So they definitely know I'm away from UK. But as of yet, no issues with the Doctor.
Having said that, to get S1 you need to be in receipt of pension (there are other minor reasons which I won't go into). Once you are of retirement age your healthcare in Portugal is claimed back from the UK. (What the S1 is about and why they want it).
Once you are of retirement age and living abroad you become eligible for healthcare back in UK again. I don't think you should be actually registered with a doctor but you are entitled to all healthcare so not de -registering with your doctor would not be a massive crime and I'm certainly not going to de-register when and if I submit my S1 over here.
I'm going to send you by PM the cover letter that came with my S1 for you to read because it explains it better than me and you will see the statement on page 2 that says you are still entitled to all treatment including planned treatment back in UK. This is a fact that many people argue with me about but the proof of it is in this letter and is also on the Government NHS website if you can find the pages to do with S1.

 

[jordanbasset]

For me, the driving license is irrelevant as I don't need to drive in Portugal, and if I did need to drive a hire car on an odd occasion I would have passport and UK license but no residency certificate aboard.

What would happen when stopped by the Police and they see from your passport that you checked into the Schengen zone more than 90 days previously?

 

[webcraft]

What would happen when stopped by the Police and they see from your passport that you checked into the Schengen zone more than 90 days previously?

If they are like police elsewhere they will be focused on the immediate issues. Road traffic police deal with road traffic issues.

Anyway, if it got awkward I would say I am a resident and didn't know about the driving license thing.

Not likely to be hiring a car more than once or twice a year, and if I am really worried that will drop to never.

All very hypothetical.

- W

 

[webcraft]

So if you have Residencia in Portugal and spend (say) 200 days a year here but still have a home in the UK, pay tax there etc. then are you still resident/eligible to vote etc in the UK?

- W

 

[nortada]

Obtaining the S1 has not triggered anything for me with regard to the UK nhs. I am still registered with my uk doctor. I can't say whether it should, but the fact is it hasn't happened yet and it was issued to me in late 2019. The S1 certificate comes signed and stamped and with the details of the UK NHS overseas office address on it. There is a section that is filled in by them that contains your personal details and in there is my address in Portugal. So they definitely know I'm away from UK. But as of yet, no issues with the Doctor.
Having said that, to get S1 you need to be in receipt of pension (there are other minor reasons which I won't go into). Once you are of retirement age your healthcare in Portugal is claimed back from the UK. (What the S1 is about and why they want it).
Once you are of retirement age and living abroad you become eligible for healthcare back in UK again. I don't think you should be actually registered with a doctor but you are entitled to all healthcare so not de -registering with your doctor would not be a massive crime and I'm certainly not going to de-register when and if I submit my S1 over here.
I'm going to send you by PM the cover letter that came with my S1 for you to read because it explains it better than me and you will see the statement on page 2 that says you are still entitled to all treatment including planned treatment back in UK. This is a fact that many people argue with me about but the proof of it is in this letter and is also on the Government NHS website if you can find the pages to do with S1.

Thanks Greeny.

Following a discussion elsewhere, following a suggestion, I have floated a thread :- https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?co...-health-cover-in-the-eu-post-31-12-20.593783/ so all can have their say.

 

[nortada]

So if you have Residencia in Portugal and spend (say) 200 days a year here but still have a home in the UK, pay tax there etc. then are you still resident/eligible to vote etc in the UK?

- W

Provided you have a UK address and are on the electoral roll - yes. And to maintain your SSR registration you need an address in the UK.

Voting in the UK - been doing it for years.

 

[nortada]

What would happen when stopped by the Police and they see from your passport that you checked into the Schengen zone more than 90 days previously?

Not sure that as a resident, your movements in and out of your host country will be recorded in your passport. Rather than your passport, your biometric residency permit will be used to track your movements.

As Webby has confirmed that, like me, he won't be driving in Portugal, not likely to happen.?

From experience, in Portugal, unless they are breaking the law, hire cars are rarely pulled over in roadside checks but they are partial to UK plated cars.

Big bucks in matriculation offences and I am advised that the arresting officers get a cut.