Plymouth Sound: entry in a storm

[TiggerToo]

Hypothetical question:

If you have to enter Plymouth Sound in a storm (full gale or stronger), which side of the breakwater would you recommend (assuming you have a choice)?

 

[Sandy]

The western entrance every time.

When are you back from your Adlantic perambulation?

 

[sarabande]

West. it's 0.5 mile width with deepwater shelter to leeward behind the breakwater, whereas the East is 0.3and has beastly rocks just downwind. Assuming a SW gale.


And if you're coming in from the Western Approaches, there's Cawsand Bay almost immediately round Penlee Point.

EDIT. If your arrival at the Western Channel Entrance coincides with a spring ebb, Cawsand could be a useful stop till the tide turns.

 

[TiggerToo]

The western entrance every time.

When are you back from your Adlantic perambulation?

we will leave the Azores as soon as we have managed to get our engine repaired. Hopefully sometime this week.

 

[B27]

I think it might depend on the wind and tide directions and where I was coming from?

 

[KeelsonGraham]

I think it might depend on the wind and tide directions and where I was coming from?

Nope, The Western entrance is about as safe a harbour entrance that you can get. It can be a bit wavy just around it’s narrowest point but nothing unmanageable.

 

[Skysail]

Entering Plymouth Sound in rough weather:

A post from 2013 discusses this, and see the MAIB report on Kishmul of Ayr.

 

[B27]

A lot of wibble assuming the prevailing SW etc etc.
Anyone in the SW (e.g. Brixham) last weekend might realise that the SW wind does not always 'prevail', you can get a gale from any direction.

 

[sarabande]

Wibble ? Really ?

Knowing the direction from which the OP is sailing, and the long term forecasts, and the possible spread of arrival dates, those who have posted , inc the OP. are familiar with Plymouth as a 'home' base, and have made pragmatic and seamanlike recommendations.

If the OP gets a gale from NE to SE its likely he will be holed up in Dartmouth anyway.


Let's hear your assessment of an optimum strategy for the OP, and your specific recommendations, for his approach towards Plymouth please.

 

[B27]

The OP says 'hypothetical question'.
My point is, you can't really make specific recommendations without knowing the specific case.

If the OP is coming from the Azores, then I'd suggest Falmouth and get the bus or train to Plymouth if you really want to go there in a storm.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

The OP says 'hypothetical question'.
My point is, you can't really make specific recommendations without knowing the specific case.

If the OP is coming from the Azores, then I'd suggest Falmouth and get the bus or train to Plymouth if you really want to go there in a storm.

Yes you can. Entering Plymouth safely in storm conditions means entering using the Western entrance. The entrance is twice the width, is deeper, is well marked, shows well on radar, and doesn’t have hazards to its North and South.

There really shouldn’t be any debate about this.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The OP says 'hypothetical question'.
My point is, you can't really make specific recommendations without knowing the specific case.

If the OP is coming from the Azores, then I'd suggest Falmouth and get the bus or train to Plymouth if you really want to go there in a storm.

The Azores is a red herring and therefore Falmouth the OP didn't mention it but did ask which is the better entrance to Plymouth in a gale. Whilst both are tenable the Western entrance is by far the easier and safer if you can make it. It's as simple as that.
Having kept boats in Plymouth for many years and used both entrances in very strong winds the West several times, the East once and whilst the boat and myself managed it it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences requiring constant checking of leeway and boat track ( before the days of chart plotters). For what it's worth I have been into Falmouth in gales as well and there is Black Rock to miss OK if you are familiar but a number of yachts have hit it and Plymouths breakwater has taken the odd yacht or two. Knowledge and prudence dictate that the Western entrance will always be the easiest and safest.

 

[Sandy]

I think it might depend on the wind and tide directions and where I was coming from?

Please share your experience of entering Plymouth Sound in various conditions?

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Interestingly, if approaching from the East from, for example 1nm south of the Mewstone, to abeam Melampus buoy, the difference between going through the Eastern entrance vs going through the Western is only about 0.6nm. For the extra peace of mind and safety I’ll always accept the extra 7 mins or so.

 

[B27]

Please share your experience of entering Plymouth Sound in various conditions?

Most difficult time was probably against the tide in very little wind, in a dinghy..
I've been in and out of both entrances in various boats over the last 40 years.
I can imagine there are times when I wouldn't beat outside the breakwater to use the West entrance when I could fetch through the East
Some years ago we came in from the West and getting from the West entrance to the lee of Drakes Island was quite hairy, a dead run and gusty and shifty, with commercial traffic and the navy keeping us on our toes.
It can be quite lively inside the Breakwater.

Many people seem to have tried sailing over the breakwater, don't know that anyone ever succeeded?

 

[veshengro]

" Many people seem to have tried sailing over the breakwater, don't know that anyone ever succeeded? "

Exactly that.. I knew someone whose 'Round the World Voyage' in his first sailing yacht ( previous experienced Mobo owner) ended when he tried to enter Plymouth Sound at high water Springs in reduced visibility, and passed to starboard of the Western Light. Pre plotter days, He told me later that he didn't see the Breakwater and was under engine at the time. Rescued by a Royal Navy Tender/Work Boat that had been servicing the big Man o war mooring bouys in the Sound.

He felt less of a fool later when a Race contestant, a Belgian I believe, tried to sail his Catamaran at speed across the Breakwater a couple of weeks later.

 

[jimi]

I’ve come in through the eastern entrance in an easterly gale in a Beneteau 331 and didn’t think too much of it. The headlands etc give more shelter than in the westerly entrance as long as a reasonable clearance to dangers are given .., not a major issue in the days of modern chartplotters.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I’ve come in through the eastern entrance in an easterly gale in a Beneteau 331 and didn’t think too much of it. The headlands etc give more shelter than in the westerly entrance as long as a reasonable clearance to dangers are given .., not a major issue in the days of modern chartplotters.

I think in an easterly gale, and eastern entrance would give quicker shelter once in, plus the lack of need to get to east of drakes island if The Bridge looked dodgy. The lights and buoys are however messier, so poor visibility and night might make eastern entrance less attractive

The poor fellow who hit the eastern rocks a few years ago was I think pushed there by SW winds - ie he had missed western entrance, lost positional awareness due to extreme fatigue etc.

 

[Hermit]

Having taken a 141m T42 Destroyer (and other smaller, less important, Frigates) through both ends many times, I would just say whichever gave the quickest and easiest way in the conditions to get behind the big wall.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

T42 = ample, warm, dry, well-rested professional crew, thus thinking straight, superb nav kit, radar and navigator‘s plotting position, dedicated navigator, not being bounced about a lot, high bridge position giving good visibility - even in storm conditions, twin engines for redundancy, no need to tack or gybe, and no need to worry about lobster pots.

Small yacht in storm conditions - not so much