Penalty for not clearing out

[dunedin]

I've often wondered this. Unless you're singlehanded you're likely providing someone else's passport details. If you get that wrong they're not recorded as leaving. I'd love to know exactly what the significance is if you forget to send the form when you leave or simply make a typo. If you completely burn down someone else's schengen clock I can see that putting quite a strain on a marriage/relationship/friendship. Wonder how easy it is to correct these kind of errors?

The fact the form is not automated makes me think they largely ignore it - especially since a lot of people must simply change plans half way across the channel with the vagaries of wind. I'm 100pc sure they used to ignore all customs formalities on Alderney - back in the day if you had a non-EU crew member and couldn't simply put the form in the box they made it pretty clear they wished you hadn't bothered them.


St Vasst form here:
https://apisspl.kpratik.com/storage...6c4c015adpravis-immigration-maritime-SVLH.pdf

You need to be there with the physical passports to get stamped into the EU / Schengen, and back with the physical passports to get stamped out. The joys of our new world.

 

[Daydream believer]

Just out of interest, why? It's just sending an e-mail. I'm sure people forget to do it all the time, but choosing not to do it in advance seems a little eccentric.

But an email does not get a stamp on your passport to contra the one you get when you arrive
Ostend - as an example- requires an email notification of intended arrival which gets approval. Usually within a few hours. You take passport to the immigration & it gets stamped. They check the email to see if you have pre advised. I know because they have asked me first.
On departure one gets a stamp to counter the first one. That means that in future they can calculate the days you have resided in the zone. Just sending an email saying that you have left will not prove that you have left. You could send an email saying. You left but still be there. How do you prove otherwise? Anyone can show a receipt for,say, a UK marina bill for a boat, but that does not mean that you were on it. Similarly the UK C1331 does not actually prove that you did go back to the UK
That being said, I got my passport stamped in Dieppe telling immigration that I was leaving within a few hours. I actually left for Dover 2 days later. My friend did similar a month later & stopped at Boulogne on the way to Ramsgate. If challenged he was going to say that he had emergency engine issues so had to stop. But he was not challenged.

 

[rogerthebodger]

You must remember that customs immigration and port health are the lowest of the low government officials and are doing a mind blowing job so if they think they can throw their weight around they will.

I spent over 20 years having to deal with both the lowest of the low as well as the senior management of customs. Those who knew me didn't som just tried to excise their perceived power

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Oh carp, that's where we're headed next. And I thought Antigua was bad!

Hi,

Best for minimal fuss, chaos and bother is to check in at Port Zante.

Port Zante (officialdom) is manned 08.00 to 18.09

Apparently you will need to do: KN, Eapis and Sail Clear


Check your PM’ and contact me,

PS Basseterre roadstead can be ‘rolly’ at times.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have dual nationality one being British.

If I enter the UK I would use my british Passport but could leave on my other passport. Perfectly legal but the UK immigration would not be able to connect my entry and exit.

I am also dual national ... I leave Germany on my German passport and enter the U.K on my U.K. passport. In the other direction I leave on U.K. on my U.K. passport and enter Germany on my German one. That way nothing gets stamped. All other countries I use my German passport, but always carry both.

Made the mistake of handing my U.K. passport to an official in Munich airport once, he immediately spotted the lack of entry stamp and queried me, but lost interest when I gave him my German passport.

 

[Mark-1]

You need to be there with the physical passports to get stamped into the EU / Schengen, and back with the physical passports to get stamped out. The joys of our new world.

Oh right, you're assuming you'll get your passport stamped on the way in, fair enough. Assuming you're doing the milk run thing Solent->St Vaast or whatever I'm not sure you will.

Even at the tunnel you can just get waved through at the tunnel without anyone looking at your passport. So there must be gazzilions of people who have an entry stamp and had their passport scanned. (I'm sure the scanning is more important than the stamp.)

Doesn't seem to be a problem:
UK passport not stamped on exit from France: Will this cause problems?

 

[Mark-1]

Ostend - as an example- requires an email notification of intended arrival which gets approval. Usually within a few hours. You take passport to the immigration & it gets stamped.

On departure one gets a stamp to counter the first one. That means that in future they can calculate the days you have resided in the zone. Just sending an email saying that you have left will not prove that you have left.

I'm thinking of the milk run channel routes to Northern France where you send the PAF form and they may or may not send someone to look at a passport.

On departure one gets a stamp to counter the first one. That means that in future they can calculate the days you have resided in the zone. Just sending an email saying that you have left will not prove that you have left.

...but you don't always get corresponding stamps, especially not if you're a yachtie going to Northern France for the weekend. So I'm wondering how they handle the thousands of people who've been scanned in but never scanned out.

Hopefully not too much of a drama then can hardly claim your still in the EU if you've just arrived from the UK:
UK passport not stamped on exit from France: Will this cause problems?

 

[st599]

Oh right, you're assuming you'll get your passport stamped on the way in, fair enough. Assuming you're doing the milk run thing Solent->St Vaast or whatever I'm not sure you will.

Even at the tunnel you can just get waved through at the tunnel without anyone looking at your passport. So there must be gazzilions of people who have an entry stamp and had their passport scanned. (I'm sure the scanning is more important than the stamp.)

Doesn't seem to be a problem:
UK passport not stamped on exit from France: Will this cause problems?

The passport stamps end this year though. In future you may need to visit a biometric gate.

 

[Mark-1]

The passport stamps end this year though. In future you may need to visit a biometric gate.

I presume when people say stamps they mean 'scan'. Customs aren't routinely flicking through every passport pairing up stamps. So whatever happens you already have to go near a customs guy who has kit of some kind. (If he can be bothered to drive to St Vaast or wherever.)

 

[st599]

I presume when people say stamps they mean 'scan'. Customs aren't routinely flicking through every passport pairing up stamps. So whatever happens you already have to go near a customs guy who has kit of some kind. (If he can be bothered to drive to St Vaast or wherever.)

Nope. The EU wide system doesn't go live until later this year. At the moment each country has their own system for checking Interpol, Europol etc., but for checking 90 in 180 they are literally totting up stamps in the passport.

 

[mjcoon]

The passport stamps end this year though. In future you may need to visit a biometric gate.

A few years ago I flew back to UK with a large sticking plaster on my nose (covering a stitch or two put in the night before). It was agreed that there was no point my trying the photo gate and I had to present myself to the official...

 

[Mark-1]

Nope. The EU wide system doesn't go live until later this year. At the moment each country has their own system for checking Interpol, Europol etc., but for checking 90 in 180 they are literally totting up stamps in the passport.

When I say scanning I mean the bar code as they have done for years. That has to be their primary way to check this stuff. I'm merely making the point that there will be no practical difference to the punter, instead of a bar code scanner it will be a fingerprint scanner or whatever (Or stamp if you prefer.). Thinking about it's not even possible to get a stamp if you use the electronic passport control, plus when you get a new passport they don't transfer the physical stamps but I bet the French system maintains a record of the 'scan history'.

EDIT: Staggeringly I *think* ST599 is correct and the EU don't maintain any record of the passports they scan:

Entry-Exit System

EES will replace the current system of manual stamping of passports, which is time consuming, does not provide reliable data on border crossings and does not allow a systematic detection of over-stayers

UK, America, Canada seem to, but not the EU. So they can't kick you out for overstaying until you turn up at the airport to leave and all you need to do to reset your 90 days is "lose" your passport.

 

[st599]

When I say scanning I mean the bar code as they have done for years. That has to be their primary way to check this stuff. I'm merely making the point that there will be no practical difference to the punter, instead of a bar code scanner it will be a fingerprint scanner or whatever (Or stamp if you prefer.). Thinking about it's not even possible to get a stamp if you use the electronic passport control, plus when you get a new passport they don't transfer the physical stamps but I bet the French system maintains a record of the 'scan history'.

The french system may do, but at present the only check of 90 in 180 is stamp counting by hand. With the number of work trips I do, it's now up to 5 mins per entry.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The french system may do, but at present the only check of 90 in 180 is stamp counting by hand. With the number of work trips I do, it's now up to 5 mins per entry.

Even at airports, it's rare these days to get stamps in your passport; electronic systems are usual. I used to worry slightly about running out of pages; these days I am sorry I no longer accumulate a record of my travels in my passport.

 

[capnsensible]

Ì got loadsa pages like this.

 

[st599]

Even at airports, it's rare these days to get stamps in your passport; electronic systems are usual. I used to worry slightly about running out of pages; these days I am sorry I no longer accumulate a record of my travels in my passport.

I've got about 100 entering and exiting the EU in the last 3 years. They definitely still stamp.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Made the mistake of handing my U.K. passport to an official in Munich airport once, he immediately spotted the lack of entry stamp and queried me, but lost interest when I gave him my German passport.

That is why I leave the UK on my RSA passport so I have an exit stamp for when I arrive in RSA entry with my RSA Passport

Some countries can be quite sticky but do loose interest once they know you know the setup

 

[Beelzebub]

Antigua Jolly Harbour has always been good. The tough one was the police station outside Nelsons Dockyard. The new one inside I didn't find too bad....but I guess I got used to it all!!

Ah...English Harbour:- Sergeant King (later Captain King)! It paid to keep in his good books.

 

[ylop]

Well, a lot of smartphones have biometric (fingerprint) scanners, and a camera is also a biometric scanners. Most secure apps on my phone (banking, even shopping) use biometric authentication, so I'd hope that a means to use that would be available. I think the biometrics on passports are just fingerprints and perhaps facial recognition.

The biometrics on your phone are not accessible to the apps - they confirm (or otherwise) that the person is an authorised user of the device but they don't have any way to share the substance behind that authentication with anyone else even if using the same system.
UK passports do not contain fingerprints, they have facial measurements which it *might* be possible to replicate with some phones but given how hard it is to get egates to recognise your with a fixed camera set up and controlled lighting I would doubt its practical.

If you have a U.K. passport then there is no issue, you are entitled to come and go from the U.K. as you please.

It always amuses me that the Venn diagram of people who would be outraged about having to check in and out (and the government know who was in/out the country) has a big overlap with the group of people who think we should have tougher controls on who is allowed into the country!

If you do not have a U.K. passport and don't officially exit, then the "visa free" clock keeps ticking until it runs over the time you are allowed to stay - 6 months or thereabouts. When you re-enter the U.K. at a later date you will be detained and questioned as a visa overstayer ... if you have no record of having left the U.K. then you will most likely be deported back to where you came from.

Could be a way to get a free trip to Rwanda ;-)

I have dual nationality one being British.

If I enter the UK I would use my british Passport but could leave on my other passport. Perfectly legal but the UK immigration would not be able to connect my entry and exit.

Unless its improved a lot recently UK immigration aren't that sophisticated anyway! There is of course free movement from UK to ROI and nothing to stop you coming back from Dublin to London via Belgium - with no knowledge for the UK that you had ever left.

I presume when people say stamps they mean 'scan'. Customs aren't routinely flicking through every passport pairing up stamps.

Last time I was on the continent they seemed to be looking for the corresponding stamp to put the "out" beside the "in".

Even at airports, it's rare these days to get stamps in your passport; electronic systems are usual. I used to worry slightly about running out of pages; these days I am sorry I no longer accumulate a record of my travels in my passport.

I think i've had physical stamps on every trip since I got my new navy blue passport (at the far end - nothing at this end).

 

[jordanbasset]

Deleted wrong forum