Ownership Proof

[pauls_SPT]

Hiya,

I wonder if anyone can help me, please?

I have a boat I'm currently rebuilding and it strikes me that, aside from a note agreeing the sale with the previous owner, I have no official documents regarding my ownership of it.

I've thought about simply printing up the nautical equivalent of a V5 form myself, but I suspect this would have little or no legal bearing if somebody asked me to prove my ownership of my boat.

So, what's the solution? Do I have to register my boat with the local harbour authorities or something like that? Can I get a solicitor to draw up legal documents that would prove ownership? The only reason I ask is because, if somebody were literally to steal my boat from its mooring, I can't see how I'd even prove I ever owned it for it to be stolen in the first place...

Any thoughts will be much appreciated,

Many thanks,

Paul Harlow

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[extravert]

If you bought the boat used from someone else then you should have both signed a Bill of Sale. Can you still contact the previous owner and fill out and sign one retrospectively?

You can download a blank Bill of Sale from the MCA's website...

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-msf4705.pdf>http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-msf4705.pdf</A>

You can also register your boat officially with the UK government (if you are an EU citizen and live in the UK). There are two methods, Part 1 and Part 3 (also called the Small Ship's Register). Part 1 is expensive, requires a special survey, and is more suited to ships. Part 3 is cheap and easy, doesn't say or prove much, but is more suited to pleasure boats.

Another issue you may need to be concerned about is VAT status. For now, make sure you keep all receipts for work done and major components you buy. Do a search on this forum for 'VAT' and you will find a lot of information.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[snowleopard]

SSR/ part 3 registartion is no help, the certificate specifically says 'this is not proof of ownership'. i have a similar problem as i built my boat so have no bill of sale. i carry a wad of invoices and photos as proof. i was once asked for proof (in martinique) and offered to go back to the boat to fetch the papers but they didn't insist.

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[extravert]

I realize Part 3 is no proof of ownership, which is why I said 'doesn't say or prove much'. Is Part 1 any better?

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[AndrewB]

If it is larger than a dinghy, get the boat registered part 3 (SSR). That doesn't PROVE ownership, but would certainly satisfy the relevant authorities as to your claim to it. Details and an online application form are available <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-the_mca/mcga-uk_registration.htm>HERE</A>. Registration takes about a month, and involves no formalities beyond the application.

I agree with Extravert, that it would be highly desirable to go back to the seller and get a proper invoice or better still a witnessed bill of sale for the boat.

The only absolute proof of title is part 1 registration. For that you would normally need the original builders certificate and a complete chain of witnessed bills of sale, plus evidence regarding any debts (e.g. marine mortgage) secured against it. That sounds out of the question. However, if you retain the boat for a number of years (I think possibly a minimum of five), keeping part 3 registration and a record of bills etc throughout that period to demonstrate constructive ownership, I believe it is now possible to apply for part 1 registration.

 

[snowleopard]

<would certainly satisfy the relevant authorities as to your claim to it> i don't think any clued-up authorities would take any notice of SSR. there have been cases of thieves registering a boat in their own name before even stealing it!!

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[dick_james]

looking at my part1 cert. it says on the reverse "a certificate of registry is not proof of ownership" ???

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[AndrewB]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

<font size=1> i don't think any clued-up authorities would take any notice of SSR. there have been cases of thieves registering a boat in their own name before even stealing it!! </font size=1>

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But why would they bother if it didn't strengthen their position with authorities? Clearly they expected to pass muster at least with foreign customs!

(P.S. I've never heard of thieves actually having the prescience to do this, would be interested if you have a reference. Certainly not your average tea-leaf).

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[AndrewB]

Is this hair-splitting? Or have the rules changed?

The documentation used to say that you were "Registering Title" in a yacht with part 1 registration. I have always assumed this was legalese for what is commonly spoken of as ownership; though as with owning a mortgaged house, not excluding the possibility of a known secured interest against the boat.

But just now trying to check this in response to you, I find that the expression seems to have disappeared ... though my Google search turned it up for Isle of Man registration. So does Pauls_SPT need to register in IOM to prove "ownership"?

 

[pauls_SPT]

Re: Is this hair-splitting? Or have the rules changed?

Blimy - it's all a bit complicated!

Thanks to everyone who's replied - I've certainly got a few ideas of what to do next...

All the best,

Paul

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