Orford Ness Overfalls

[Sixpence]

Not urgent as I don't anticipate meeting them again this season, but a bit of advice would be appreciated here.
Having tackled Orford Ness a short while ago and found it to be less than what I would call an enjoyable experience, I now see that others have much the same feelings. Is there a best route to take, inside or outside, or straight over and ride the rapids, or is there a best time to cross ?. Wind and tide obviously affect this I think, but any advice would be helpful.

 

[D3B]

Dave
They are usually at their worst on the ebb.
I have always used a waypoint 2 miles off them but was caught out in the F6 recently when they had expanded beyond what the chart shows. and that was wind with the tide.
Brigid Mary may be along shortly to give his recommendation but i believe most go inside them almost touching the lighthouse.
as a mobo the extra mile or so off didnt bother me, but under sail it would add extra unceassary time.

 

[CPD]

I have been up that way a couple of times and have always steered away from the shallows (Whiting and Bawdsey Banks) and as Dougie suggests, have hugged the coastline. What I dont understand though is why the overfalls should be worse on the ebb rather than the flow, given that these two lumps are surrounded by sea bed of roughly the same depth all round..

Anyone care to suggest why ??

 

[Sixpence]

Glad to see it's not just me that's confused by that, personally though, I prefer the sound of the longer route, but as Doug says, hopefully some local info might be useful.

 

[bastonjock]

Dave

i went up to orford yesterday,the route that i took at the mouth or the ord was not the wisest one,i was lucky not to rip the hull out.

my intended route when i return is to head for the Orford Haven clear water mark,then to take a heading to wards the light house on the inside of the outfalls,there is however a wreck on the shoreline about 0.75nm south from the lighthouse.I also intend to make the run on the flo.This is against the tidal stream

If you want ill give you a shout when i do it.Then we can compare notes.

The outfalls start parralell to the mushroom type buildings on the shore

looks like the best time to hit the outfalls is about 3-4 hours before high water at dover,the tidal stream runs north to south on the flood,so that should give you max speed and no ebb

unfortunealey its at hard slog going back

The problem as i see it doing the outside route,is that the area is flanked by sand banks,you would have to go about 6nm offshore to avoid the banks and if you do the "sledway route" you are in between two sand banks and if you have to run for shore,its very shallow in places

 

[Sixpence]

Matt
Must admit I had a feeling that we had lady luck on our side on the Southbound leg. Been researching that particular area for a while and can't find many other areas that turn into a cauldron like we went through. The return leg is going to be a long hard slog and not a particularly enjoyable one but if you want a hand give me a shout, it'll be even less fun if you do it singlehanded

 

[bastonjock]

ill let you know when i heading back,i sailed up the ore on Sunday,i had left "pirates bay" at walton and motorsailed at 1000 rpm with full rags up and got to the deben at 11 am,i thought ill go on untill 3 pm its such a beautifull day any how i went up the Ore,i considered turning around at the entrance as fuel was low but i soldiered on as i thought "there must be petrol there"

anyhow i was wrong,i asked a little old lady as to were i could buy some petrol,she smilled and said"getting low: and produced a 5 liter can which i promptly bought

i made it back to the Deben on fumes

 

[Sixpence]

Whoops /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Somehow methinks the little old lady is onto a good earner there /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Simon's 7.5hp is still going on the same tank of juice we used on the upriver trip, made it to the tidal gate and back before finally needing a refill. Just enough left to keep running it every other day to loosen it up over the next week and it should be easier to start by then

 

[simplesimon]

not bad for 88p a litre vintage eh /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Going to cost a bit more than that when I fill it up again /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Wonder if it would run on Polish Vodka ? cheaper than petrol round here /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[simplesimon]

i wonder if new fuel and oil will help to loosen her up a bit ....... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Ran it dry this time, took the fuel line off and waited for it to cut out so the carb isn't going to get a chance to get sticky, then I'll use fresh before the next trip and we'll see if that's what the problem was, but don't understand why it feels stiff then suddenly goes free and fires up

 

[Athene V30]

[ QUOTE ]
and can't find many other areas that turn into a cauldron like we went through

[/ QUOTE ]
I still shudder at the thought of one particular trip down the Alderney Race probably 30 years ago! Never in my life seen a sea like it (not particularly high waves but so short and with no direction at all) and that includes standing out off Portland Bill in the 'Oct 87' gale. Makes you check the chart a bit more carefully and watch your track better in future though!

Reading Nick Ward's Left for Dead - his tale of the 79 Fastnet and his description of the sea conditions are something else!

 

[pennycar9]

I think I was there on the day Dougie is talking of and it wernt very plaesant!!!! I always find the inshore route is the most comfortable but you must be aware of the conditions before you commit.
A bunch of us came up from the Orwell a couple of weeks ago and the wind was in the south so I decided on the inshore route carrying the ebb. We could have thrown stones on to the ness and there was 6 meters of water, we then when up the Onion channel, No problem. However any wind with much east in it would find me well off, probably out as much as 2 miles.
The overfalls are caused by the ebb tide coming up between the Whiting Bank and the shore line and the volume of water is squeezed with a resultant increase in velocity and then this mass of water is reflected off the ness and thus causing confused seas.
Overfalls are present to a greater or lesser extent on all headlands, wether they are called Ness,Point or Head. The race at Portland is caused by the same effect and the calmest place to be when the race is in full force is close inshore.

 

[bastonjock]

i can best describe the cauldro that dave and i went through as the entrance to wells harbour in a F6 Northerly,except at wells you only have to put up with it for about 50 yards

at Orford ness it seemed to last forever

it was not so much the wave height or the wind,it was the frequency,F5 South easterly on the bow,im ot even sure if the tide was on the ebb at the time

 

[Cantata]

[ QUOTE ]
.............. went up the Ore, I considered turning around at the entrance as fuel was low but I soldiered on as I thought "there must be petrol there"
anyhow I was wrong................

[/ QUOTE ]
For future reference there is (or was??) a petrol station at Orford, in Front Street, half a mile from the quay.

 

[Sixpence]

Thanks for the explanation, it makes it easier to understand why it happens and we'll watch for wind direction and state of tide on the return trip. Confused sea doesn't sound like a bad description to me, it didn't have a friggin clue what it wanted to do /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Been following other comments and trying to find a video of the Alderney race but nobody seems to have time (or the inclination) to record it as they go through it, wonder why /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Best I can find is this one which shows the difference between an inshore (relatively smooth flow) passage, and what it's like through the rough stuff, but as usual, video and photograph's never do it justice
Video Here
Matt, suggest we have some inspiring music in the background for the return trip, something like Monty Python and Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Maybe next year the East Coast Forum would like to have a gathering in Lowestoft ?

 

[MoodySabre]

I'm up for Lowestoft next year and a visit to Southwold on the way back.

2009 planning has started /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Athene V30]

Could well be up for that too.

How far is Lowestoft from the Blackwater? 80 miles maybe?

SWMBO has said we are not havign a family holiday next year so that must mean I can have more time on the boat. Family are welcome to come too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Good to hear it Roger, if we get the plans in place soon enough there shouldn't be any reason for us not to get at least the majority of us round there. I think the marina even has deep enough water for Mr Guapa to be able to make it. Not sure what venue's there are, but maybe a local could help out with that side. It's one of the places that's within range for just about all the regular's, even me, just.