Orca attack
- Thread starter Sailfree
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mainsail1
Well-known member
To those who say there have been a lot of attacks at night before last month. Please provide evidence as I cannot find it.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Orca Interaction and Uneventful Passage Report Results | CA
Broadly similar number of attacks in daylight or night.
At one point last year the Orca Ibérica page was saying that the were more attacks at night, but that seems to have levelled out as more data has come in.
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mainsail1
Well-known member
Well, I have been following the CA site and have just looked again at the stats with reference to attacks. I think you are mistaken. The vast majority are during the day/dawn/dusk.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
A Cat???
Kelpie
Well-known member
And so are the best majority of uneventful passages. The point of the comparative data is to show a difference in likelihood due to different factors. Add you'll see, around 75% of both attacks and uneventful passages are during daylight.
Anecdotally, I have met three people who have had Orca attacks, one of whom was attacked twice, so four attacks total. Two in day time, two at night.
Sandy
Well-known member
The individual who was attacked twice, it would be useful to know the boat type and circumstances.
Kelpie
Well-known member
I think they've since written about it in PBO, the boat is a Sun Odyssey 40 and they were traveling between Spain and Morocco. Calm conditions, traveling under motor.
The attacks were several hours apart, the first one at night and the second one during daylight.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
My knowledge of people we know that cruised that part of the coast going and coming back from the med ,
who have been attack , has some inaction or pass without a problem ( 11 in all ) non have said they filled in the CA account,
So with that in mind I don't think you can rely on what data they have .
Graham376
Well-known member
Vast majority of the tens of thousands of unaffected boats sailing between France and Tarifa and the hundreds (if not thousands) of long passage makers aren't going to bother submitting reports to CA, even if aware of the site. We've seen the usual number of boats passing through from northern Europe without incident, many now heading for the ARC.
dunedin
Well-known member
Yes, it is a shame when somebody like the Cruising Association tries to help (after lots on here bemoan nobody doing anything) but struggles to get people to provide the data needed to help.
If people who have passages without interactions fail to report them we will never be any the wiser. Perhaps you should encourage them to do so.
Graham376
Well-known member
I don't think you're being realistic. When we go out sailing, we (in common with other local boats) pass the tuna traps where a couple of attacks have taken place but, no way am I going to report every time we go out without any encounters.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I think you may understamate the size of the CA ,
in the boating Cruising world the CA are concidered to Be a small British sailing club .
They maybe well known within the British home sailor but it stop there .
So I'm not surprise people are not coming forward .
Most sailors who cruise them part regularly and them who have to make passage in tho seas are mostly concern of the safety of the crews and boat and all the suggestion which was well rammed at them in the begin that the Orcas where more important then their safety then go down well .
Yorkshire Paul
Member
That’s a shame. After you’ve done the first one I would say it would take you less than 10 minutes each time. It’s much easier, of course, sitting back and hoping that others contribute and that somebody comes up with a solution.
And for whoever said that the CA is mostly British, the good majority of reports received are from non-British crews.
The study has been gaining pace nicely thanks to the many crews that are happy to give up a few minutes here and there. Many thanks to them.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Hang on one min , I didn't say the CA was mostly British , what I did say was " in the Cruising world the CA is considered to be a small British sailing club"
Which in reality it is , what the membership? 5 / 6k amount hundred of thousand of boat owners.
99.9 % of yachtmen that are not British never heard of the CA,
Graham is correct you can't expect sailors to fill in the CA survey every time they go out , it's a bit like asking south coast cruiser to go onto the internet after a weekend sail and fill in what ships he seen .
As for us cruisers sitting back and doing nothing just because we arnt interested to spend our time filling in the CA survey,
Let me remind you , it wasn't the CA or the desk sitting Orcas jockey chaps , who worked out that going in astern help to put off Orcas from causing thousands of pounds of damage putting people dream on hold and in some cases destroying boats ,
It is was Cruisers.
And it wasn't the CA or the pen pushing Save the Orcas jocky that brought this to the forefront to cruising sailors but cruising sailors them self through socal media and word and month.
if they really want to do some thing useful and at the same time protect human life and the Orcas then spend some of the money on tagging the pods so cruisers have a fighting chance of keeping clear of them .
Yorkshire Paul
Member
It doesn't matter who heard of the CA before this project, what matters is that it has been widely publicised and now most reports are from non-Brit, non-member sailors. The work is free for all to benefit from and this has been recognised by affected sailors of many nationalities.
It was indeed a sailor who came up with the “Herminio” reverse manoeuvre and then several more. However that was declared illegal by the authorities. Behind the scenes the CA persuaded the GTOA to lobby the authorities to approve reversing, which they did. The Portuguese ICNF relented and lobbying of Spain’s MITECO continues behind the scenes.
GTOA hadn’t lobbied before because they were not convinced this was a long term solution (and as non-sailors thought it might be dangerous, which in certain circumstances it obviously could be).
Recent reports suggest that some GLADIS orcas are not deterred by reversing. We are asking people who reversed to advise at what point they started, whether they reversed in a straight line or circles and as much detail as they can so that we can check the comments to see whether there is a common factor where reversing fails or succeeds. I am particularly interested to find out whether the oft stated recommendation for reversing in circles is the indeed best way. You can perhaps imagine how long the volunteers involved in this spend publicising the project and studying comments.
And so frankly, were I sailing in that area I would have no hesitation in filling in a form, given that I am worse affected than those passing through and have a greater interest in finding a solution. Those who are savvy with their smart phone would take about 6-7 minutes to fill in an uneventful passage report (I timed myself before telling people online that it takes less than 10 minutes). We have had at least one interaction form filled in at sea immediately after what must be a traumatic experience.
To achieve statistical significance we need as many reports as we can get. And remember that the area for reporting uneventful passages is restricted and moves, so it’s only for certain months of the season that a local sailor could submit an uneventful passage report.
I‘ll leave that thought here, thanks to all who have supported the CA project.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Most cruiser have no intention in harming any living creatures if any thing cruiser s are more sensitive to the need of protection any looking after the environment it's not the first time we personally spend hours clearing mess others had made in the seas and harbour .
But like many other I'm not afraid that by speaking out in case it upset a few and I would suggest that most sailor will do would ever need to be done to protect their property and their lifes and of their crew no matter what the law or some organisation say .
It's the skipper duty to do what ever needed for the safely of his vessel.
So any suggestion that going in astern is now accepted because if any data , is not here or there it was excepted by skippers before any data was produce and even if it wasn't excepted , skipper in that situation would still use it if we feel that it would do some good.
The credit for this should go to sailors not to some data anyone collected.
Anyone who think the colour ,shape or size of an hull is in anyway connected to these attack might like to think again .
We led to believe that stopping still , turning everything off, only passage in shallow or deep water will stop an attack happening but it's clear even to the so call expert or at less it should be that nothing they suggested as work .
There been suggestion the shape of a rudder is associated with the fin of a shark,
The reason of attack is because of shortage of fish stock, even that they just playing with boats .
The fact is they have no idea why it's happening .
All there expertise ,data and money and they no closer to know why.
More then two years on and not only are there attack going on but got much worst, what's also clear is that it's not just one set of pod now.
What cruisers need is not silly suggest base on guessing ,
But ways to avoid the danger,
And it seem tracking the pods is the answer for now at less .
But like many other I'm not afraid that by speaking out in case it upset a few and I would suggest that most sailor will do would ever need to be done to protect their property and their lifes and of their crew no matter what the law or some organisation say .
It's the skipper duty to do what ever needed for the safely of his vessel.
So any suggestion that going in astern is now accepted because if any data , is not here or there it was excepted by skippers before any data was produce and even if it wasn't excepted , skipper in that situation would still use it if we feel that it would do some good.
The credit for this should go to sailors not to some data anyone collected.
Anyone who think the colour ,shape or size of an hull is in anyway connected to these attack might like to think again .
We led to believe that stopping still , turning everything off, only passage in shallow or deep water will stop an attack happening but it's clear even to the so call expert or at less it should be that nothing they suggested as work .
There been suggestion the shape of a rudder is associated with the fin of a shark,
The reason of attack is because of shortage of fish stock, even that they just playing with boats .
The fact is they have no idea why it's happening .
All there expertise ,data and money and they no closer to know why.
More then two years on and not only are there attack going on but got much worst, what's also clear is that it's not just one set of pod now.
What cruisers need is not silly suggest base on guessing ,
But ways to avoid the danger,
And it seem tracking the pods is the answer for now at less .
Star-Lord
Well-known member
Unfortunately Orcas learn and pass stuff on so this will no longer be localised (it will be world wide imho) because the authorities did not cull these dangerous beasts.
As to why they started… very simply they started after the first Covid Lockdown? It seems when yachts were always sailing back and forth the Orcas were used to them. But during lockdown small yachts stayed at home and so young Orcas were not used to them and when they started sailing agin The Young Ones decided to investigate. It was great fun so the carried on. My theory!
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
For now anyway there not been any other reports of rudder bitting Orcas other then thos parts , and we need to stop talking about cull them as it only feeds the fires for the do goodies, given them some thing else to stop people enjoy cruising in those parts .
Your Theory is probably as good as any other being put out there but what's needed is some kind of Acton and a way forward as I can't see this stopping over night and Cruisers arnt going to stop sailing these part so in the end there going to be more boat sunk and possibly some one killed .
with the electronic about these days any thing can be tracked and it wouldn't be difficult to find and put some kind of GPS tracker on these pods , this would help both those out there trying to understand what's going on and give sailors a tool up to date data to try and avoid them.
But I guess it's cheaper For like of GTOA to ask sailors supply data and have someone type it into a shreadsheet hoping some thing will stand out then doing some thing more practicable that would work .
Or maybe there are being track and the data isn't being given out to people who need it.
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Star-Lord
Well-known member
I talked with banana Pingers guy in UK and he said that a number of years ago only a few instances of Orcas pinching fisherman's bait from hooks but now the Orcas do it everywhere. Hence the idea this rudder biting will spread. So two banana Pingers when you depart (not just to be deployed when you see the pod approach as some do with mixed success) and THEN Spanish firecrackers if you see them approaching. Obv best to do these passages in daylight. Banana Pingers last 72 hours before recharge. Unfortunately they cost £500. 00 per pair.