Orca attack

[Adios]

Applying Occam’s Razor to this behaviour… we know that orcas which prey on seals will sometimes act as a group to overturn an ice floe with a seal on it.

Here's them working with ice

Compared to the moroccan video its not the same behavior. They don't make any attempt to flood or tip the boat like this. Here's some more video. Its a consistent method by the look of it.

Possibly they just haven't worked out a good method for boats yet but they don't seem to be trying hard to smash hulls. The fishing boat didn't look like it was more than brushed against, not a very sturdy built hull.

 

[Adios]

The thing that struck me the most from the moroccan video is they have zero fear of the fishermen. Generally animals fear humans but was that only since our recent history of killing anything that moves? Now we're not doing it do they have no fear of us? Since whale hunting stopped perhaps this is the old behavioral norm returning, seeing us as prey. Need to ask some Inuit if they have a historical tradition of considering orcas a threat like polar bears are. In which case we might need to make an example of a few of them, allowing some of the group to live to tell the others. Just saying it makes logical sense not saying its beyond doubt ethical. If they are that smart and communicate with each other it might not take many examples before they re-learn to keep their distance.

 

[salad]

Mentos and coke in a biodegradeable bottle? Not dissimilar to submarine countermeasures and whales love to play with stuff.

 

[sailaboutvic]

The thing that struck me the most from the moroccan video is they have zero fear of the fishermen. Generally animals fear humans but was that only since our recent history of killing anything that moves? Now we're not doing it do they have no fear of us since whale hunting stopped and perhaps this is the old behavioral norm seeing us as prey. Need to ask some Inuit if they have a historical tradition of considering orcas a threat like polar bears are. In which case we might need to make an example of a few of them, allowing some of the group to live to tell the others. Just saying it makes logical sense not saying its beyond doubt ethical. If they are that smart and communicate with each other it might not take many examples before they re-learn to keep their distance.

I'm no fan of kill any animal unless it because a threat to me .
A good point was made when this all started which was cull the pod and stop it before it spread.
These are intelligent and may soon be picked up by others .
I like many other didn't think that should happen ,
Of course it's now have spread to more pods doing the same ,
is there going to be a time when ever pod at it .
Then what.
I don't believe looking at spread sheet of colour or hull or if sail are up or not going to be the answer to stopping them .
It's quite clear now that different size, shape , motoring , sailing , equipment on and equipment off haven't stop the attacks and not only on sailing boats.
What worrying is like covid we may just have to live with it as the new normal.
Sadly it may take a human to be killed before any real action is taken

 

[Adios]

SeaWorld killer whale ‘bit off swimmer’s penis & held him underwater until he drowned’ in horrifying attack | The Sun

and then they made a film about these captive orcas called Free Willy?

 

[RobbieW]

Yes I know it's been going on some time now it's been posted on sailing forum like Facebook and it's not got very good respond basically form international and British sailors,
because many feel once again it's all about protecting the orca first people life second .

Someone here ask me what was I objecting too , and then try to mix what I said , I didn't reply because I'm not going to get into a confirmation with someone who after a argument .

What I strongly object to and many other is being dictated to by some sailing association club what's is acceptable when it comes to my life and my crew life .
and if the CA for one min think there going to get info from cruiser that way they got another thing coming.

Vic, I've followed these events far couple of years through Facebook and here. I'm aware of lots of individuals posting ranty messages but so as far I've been aware that hasnt included the CA. What they do currently say is here, CA.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic, I've followed these events far couple of years through Facebook and here. I'm aware of lots of individuals posting ranty messages but so as far I've been aware that hasnt included the CA. What they do currently say is here, CA.

Hi Robbie
Hope your both keeping well .
Robbie I'm fully awhere what the CA say regarding there campaign to collect info , that's great
but I do and so do other objects to them tell cruisers what acceptable when it come to the safety of their boats and life's .
If they want to tell their member what is and isn't acceptable that's fine but now they trying to tell us all with their buff .
What's next tell us we need to wear helmets ?

I fully understand that they can't say do what needs to be done to be safe but it be better if they didn't upset sailor with such statement as they have in their buff if they want our help .

One guy I'm sure you know have just returned to the UK , he had as it's called an interaction and only escape by doing what many now seen is the only thing to stop them , go in astern .
I did ask him as he a member of the CA if he report it , he felt to do so would go against their advise so he won't be.

People have rant about it many are wondering why where there been so many report that sailor who have gone in astern and manage to get away without any damage why the advise for someone like the CA isn't for coming , instead there are repeatedly tell people in their buff what been advise ie turn everything off and wait which clearly don't work as we seen time and time again people who done just that have had damage.

Enough said . I had my rant.

Luckily for me am away from these waters where it's all happen for the time being although there plenty we know who are not .

 

[25931]

I'm no fan of kill any animal unless it because a threat to me .
A good point was made when this all started which was cull the pod and stop it before it spread.
These are intelligent and may soon be picked up by others .
I like many other didn't think that should happen ,
Of course it's now have spread to more pods doing the same ,
is there going to be a time when ever pod at it .
Then what.
I don't believe looking at spread sheet of colour or hull or if sail are up or not going to be the answer to stopping them .
It's quite clear now that different size, shape , motoring , sailing , equipment on and equipment off haven't stop the attacks and not only on sailing boats.
What worrying is like covid we may just have to live with it as the new normal.
Sadly it may take a human to be killed before any real action is taken

If we are not careful the very powerful animal lovers lobby will be working to stop pleasure sailing in the orcas territory. Don't say that it couldn't happen - look what happened to another rich man's pleasure , fox hunting. It behoves us not to appear agressive We need to be seen as the victims, the simple fact is that we may not have sufficient numbers. I must declare my vested interest - I keep my boat in Olhao, in the middle of the dolphins migratory route.

 

[Goldie]

Yes I know it's been going on some time now it's been posted on sailing forum like Facebook and it's not got very good respond basically form international and British sailors,
because many feel once again it's all about protecting the orca first people life second .

Someone here ask me what was I objecting too , and then try to mix what I said , I didn't reply because I'm not going to get into a confirmation with someone who after a argument .

What I strongly object to and many other is being dictated to by some sailing association club what's is acceptable when it comes to my life and my crew life .
and if the CA for one min think there going to get info from cruiser that way they got another thing coming.

I don’t see how correlating data and trying to establish common themes in these attacks can be anything but a good thing, whether or not you agree with any ‘advice’. Out.

 

[Yorkshire Paul]

if the CA after several years of attacks have not yet come up with even preliminary results then something is wrong., why the delay?

Because the CA project started less than 3 months ago. Comparative data is now published so that you can see what this looks like (and further statistics will be derived from the data) but it is too early to draw any conclusions from the number of reports received to date.

 

[Yorkshire Paul]

Hi Robbie
Hope your both keeping well .
Robbie I'm fully awhere what the CA say regarding there campaign to collect info , that's great
but I do and so do other objects to them tell cruisers what acceptable when it come to the safety of their boats and life's .
If they want to tell their member what is and isn't acceptable that's fine but now they trying to tell us all with their buff .
What's next tell us we need to wear helmets ?

I fully understand that they can't say do what needs to be done to be safe but it be better if they didn't upset sailor with such statement as they have in their buff if they want our help .

One guy I'm sure you know have just returned to the UK , he had as it's called an interaction and only escape by doing what many now seen is the only thing to stop them , go in astern .
I did ask him as he a member of the CA if he report it , he felt to do so would go against their advise so he won't be.

People have rant about it many are wondering why where there been so many report that sailor who have gone in astern and manage to get away without any damage why the advise for someone like the CA isn't for coming , instead there are repeatedly tell people in their buff what been advise ie turn everything off and wait which clearly don't work as we seen time and time again people who done just that have had damage.

Enough said . I had my rant.

Luckily for me am away from these waters where it's all happen for the time being although there plenty we know who are not .

I think you need to read the CA web page a little more carefully.
It repeats the current advice based upon the findings of GTOA from their research
It then goes on to say that there have been many reports in respect of the success of the reversing strategy.
You will then read that at our request GTOA are consulting with the authorities on reversing, given that GTOA believe that slowly and steadily reversing will not harm orcas but has been demonstrated to (often but not always) be effective in deterring an interaction. The page says that reversing rapidly and with erratic changes of direction will not be acceptable but that this is not necessary.
The CA page does not lecture anyone on what they should and shouldn’t do.

 

[Kukri]

A point that may have been covered; afaik, modern echo sounders are part of integrated systems and are “permanently on”.

Whales are certainly going to hear echo sounder pings.

How many people have had an interaction with orcas when they have kept their echo sounder off at sea?

 

[Bajansailor]

Whales are certainly going to hear echo sounder pings.

The echo sounders might be sending messages to the whales that are seen as taunts or threats ("Oi, wotcha lookin' at my rudder like that sunshine, eh?")
And so like a typical hooligan, the whale responds in the traditional fashion with the whale equivalent of a wallop or two in the chops - or a chomp on the rudder.
"Let him have it Willy, that'll teach him"

 

[Kelpie]

A point that may have been covered; afaik, modern echo sounders are part of integrated systems and are “permanently on”.

Whales are certainly going to hear echo sounder pings.

How many people have had an interaction with orcas when they have kept their echo sounder off at sea?

A friend of mine had similar thoughts, and about an hour after turning off his sounder he was attacked.

 

[Kukri]

A friend of mine had similar thoughts, and about an hour after turning off his sounder he was attacked.

Thank you. End of hypothesis.

 

[Yorkshire Paul]

Thank you. End of hypothesis.

Not necessarily IMHO.

What about if echo sounders alert orcas to the presence of a new target from distance? If you turn it off then they may have less chance of finding you. That doesn’t mean that you would avoid an interaction by turning off the echo sounder as they might just happen by at close distance or hear you in the water, but would it reduce the chance?

Similarly could it be that in a heavier sea there is less chance of being detected from distance than in a calm sea (sea noise drowning out boat noise)? But then again if you are detected because orcas happen by at close quarters then would you want to engage reverse in a heavier sea (when that becomes acceptable to the authorities of course)?

These are issues looked at within the CA study. At this stage there are not enough reports to draw any conclusions

 

[Adios]

Thank you. End of hypothesis.

fast science

 

[Adios]

The reversing being effective might just be temporary until they figure out they just have to wait a minute for the boat to resume in forward and they come in from deeper to hit the rudder. Has anyone been bold enough to whack one on the nose with an oar? Do they react with aggression or swim away? Would a non-lethal weapon like a beanbag gun be enough to deter them? A small underwater detonation? Are we all becoming too damn soft and veganish to stand up to animals?

 

[Graham376]

A friend of mine had similar thoughts, and about an hour after turning off his sounder he was attacked.

Well, that was a waste of time then. I spent and hour the other day installing an isolating switch for the sounder

 

[Wansworth]

Was thinking of buying a bot in Cadiz and sailing back to Galicia……..might take up stamp collecting?