Orca attack

[Wansworth]

News tonite on Galician tv French yachthad its rudder bitten,off Vivero

 

[Adios]

Has anyone contacted the commercial tour boats , especially the " Whale watchers" ?

Hmm. These interactions could be Orcas way of saying “come on you tightwad where’s my free fish like those other boats gave me”. Same issue with shark watcher tour boats encouraging hungry sharks into tourist infested waters.

I had an interaction with one about 20 years ago in the north sea about 3/4 way between Ijmuden and Harwich. It kept coming up on the starboard quarter eyeing me before diving down doing a big loop ahead and coming back at full speed towards the starboard bow diving under at the last second. Then rising up eyeing me again just a few meters away Repeated at least 5 times before it presumably got bored and went off. I just held my course exactly the same while this happened as I didn’t have any idea if something else would have been better. I assumed having a black antifouled fin keel boat i looked a lot like an upturned dead whale, with a shocked looking bloke riding it. It wasn’t at all interested in my rudder though and I wonder if these whale watching boats chuck chum or whatever over the stern so they are expecting food there and get aggressive if it doesn’t come. Its big business and punters will expect a result so its likely they will prime areas like the shark people do. Or fishing boats having to discard half their catch off the back due to EU quotas.

 

[goeasy123]

Read the CA reports. They suggest that going astern fast works. However, many reports say the incidents happen too quickly to be able to take this action.

 

[goeasy123]

There needs to be some serious analysis done on these attacks before a solution is found I believe.
I'm sure that some companies will start to sell anti orca devices soon. It'll be a good money spinner but will they work? A bit like anti barking devices for dogs?

The fact is, it's exclusively (afaik) limited to sailing boats. Mostly with large rudders at the back although cats and long keeled boats are also be being targeted occasionally.
Fishing boats and high/ medium speed tourist boats have not been affected, again afaik. They have small or no rudder at all in the case of outboards.
So small rudder = no attack, maybe. They also tend to be appreciably faster than a typical sailing boat, 15 knots plus as opposed to 5 to 9 knots. Another factor I would suggest.
What colour was the antifoul, can orca see colours underwater?
What electronics were in operation at the time?
What was the weather at the time of the attack. Do calm condition encourage the orca to play, has anyone been attacked in heavier conditions, big waves etc , I've not seen any reports that suggest this.

There's lots of data out there that needs to be pulled together and maybe a pattern will emerge that gives us a clue how to avoid or reduce the risk of attack.
Unfortunately it can't be done on a forum like this and needs to be done by an organisation that has the resources and contacts to gather all the info from officialdom across several countries.
That means one that has a funded interest in the situation from a sailing point of view. The only people showing any interest apart from sailors are the wildlife groups who are looking from an animal / conservation perspective rather than a sailor's.
Rich people playing in boats who lose a rudder now and again are not far up the governments funding lists I'm afraid.

See the CA website for all this/

 

[Laser310]

See the CA website for all this/

that site looks like it is written by people who are more interested in the safety of the whales than in the safety of the boat or its crew.

we are now at a point where people's lives have been put in jeopardy.

it seems to me that henceforth, any one who is "interacted-with" by an orca should consider that they and their crew might be in mortal danger.

the range of actions that one is morally, if not legally, entitled to take when in mortal danger is significantly wider than what is mentioned on that website.

 

[Adios]

the range of actions that one is morally, if not legally, entitled to take when in mortal danger is significantly wider than what is mentioned on that website.

Considering only one boat has been lost and some others disabled all quite possibly by non-aggressive bumps in fragile areas I'm not sure resorting to a kill or be killed mentality is right. Would be interested to know what failed on the sunk boat. If it was from a 5 year life expectancy cheapo through hull fitting popping off (another thread today) because it brushed up against it, thats very different to a decently made hull being stove in by repeated ramming. The modern boats with egg shell like hulls and dangly rudders are our mistake perhaps, we can choose what to sail before thinking slaughter is the only option.

 

[25931]

Hmm. These interactions could be Orcas way of saying “come on you tightwad where’s my free fish like those other boats gave me”. Same issue with shark watcher tour boats encouraging hungry sharks into tourist infested waters.

I had an interaction with one about 20 years ago in the north sea about 3/4 way between Ijmuden and Harwich. It kept coming up on the starboard quarter eyeing me before diving down doing a big loop ahead and coming back at full speed towards the starboard bow diving under at the last second. Then rising up eyeing me again just a few meters away Repeated at least 5 times before it presumably got bored and went off. I just held my course exactly the same while this happened as I didn’t have any idea if something else would have been better. I assumed having a black antifouled fin keel boat i looked a lot like an upturned dead whale, with a shocked looking bloke riding it. It wasn’t at all interested in my rudder though and I wonder if these whale watching boats chuck chum or whatever over the stern so they are expecting food there and get aggressive if it doesn’t come. Its big business and punters will expect a result so its likely they will prime areas like the shark people do. Or fishing boats having to discard half their catch off the back due to EU quotas.

There is so much that we do not know. Some people ( including a skipper whose boat was played with) think that it is just a game. I have read that Orcas tend to have a rather restricted diet and tend to go hungry when their staple fish is in short supply. The Iberian Orcas are partial to tunny. Tunny is in short supply due to over fishing. Could this make them peevish ? If so why yachts and not fishing boats ? A Spanish cientist is reported as saying that the attackers are scarred (due to sharp keels ?).
Like any forum topic it allows scope for the imaginations of the pundits (a common species on forums).

 

[sailaboutvic]

See the CA website for all this/

Just to add for them not CA member this info can be found on the net freely

 

[sailaboutvic]

There is so much that we do not know. Some people ( including a skipper whose boat was played with) think that it is just a game. I have read that Orcas tend to have a rather restricted diet and tend to go hungry when their staple fish is in short supply. The Iberian Orcas are partial to tunny. Tunny is in short supply due to over fishing. Could this make them peevish ? If so why yachts and not fishing boats ? A Spanish cientist is reported as saying that the attackers are scarred (due to sharp keels ?).
Like any forum topic it allows scope for the imaginations of the pundits (a common species on forums).

There you go , all we need to do is remove our keels .
Not sure what world some are living in , it's not the real world.
Let just wait till some one killed , tho I guess posting here will read " yea but there only been one death"

 

[Laser310]

There is so much that we do not know. Some people ( including a skipper whose boat was played with) think that it is just a game

it may be a game in some cases

but in other cases it might be an attack.., with the specific intent of causing damage or injury

we are asked to believe that these animals are highly intelligent - perhaps almost as intelligent as humans..., but then we are told it's wrong to call 'interactions' attacks.., because the whales are incapable of forming the intent to attack humans.., i.e. to cause damage or injury on purpose..., or that perhaps they don't know they are causing damage...

 

[sailaboutvic]

it may be a game in some cases

but in other cases it might be an attack.., with the specific intent of causing damage or injury

we are asked to believe that these animals are highly intelligent - perhaps almost as intelligent as humans..., but then we are told it's wrong to call 'interactions' attacks.., because the whales are incapable of forming the intent to attack humans.., i.e. to cause damage or injury on purpose..., or that perhaps they don't know they are causing damage...

If as we are led to believe there are intelligent ,
That's makes them even more dangerous.

 

[RobbieW]

If as we are led to believe there are intelligent ,
That's makes them even more dangerous.

I'm sure they are 'playing', thier intelligence doesnt encompass damage in the same way as ours because their world is very different. We are the ones who 'suffer' that behaviuor, it falls to us to work out how to stop it; reversing and pingers seem the way forward

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'm sure they are 'playing', thier intelligence doesnt encompass damage in the same way as ours because their world is very different. We are the ones who 'suffer' that behaviuor, it falls to us to work out how to stop it; reversing and pingers seem the way forward

Pingers seen to be made illegal to use but reversing seen to work if they can be seen before damage .

 

[25931]

There you go , all we need to do is remove our keels .
Not sure what world some are living in , it's not the real world.
Let just wait till some one killed , tho I guess posting here will read " yea but there only been one death"

Sorry I should have said rudders. I have asked before but without reply, has any attention been given to the type of rudder being attacked?

 

[Wandering Star]

Sorry I should have said rudders. I have asked before but without reply, has any attention been given to the type of rudder being attacked?

Tasty ones.

 

[Graham376]

Sorry I should have said rudders. I have asked before but without reply, has any attention been given to the type of rudder being attacked?

From the reports and videos, seems to be all types from spade to full skeg with bottom shoe.

 

[Adios]

I'm sure they are 'playing', thier intelligence doesnt encompass damage in the same way as ours because their world is very different. We are the ones who 'suffer' that behaviuor, it falls to us to work out how to stop it; reversing and pingers seem the way forward

Agree its down to us to stop it not start killing. Something has probably been changed by us, overfishing, attracting them somehow, electronic signals coming from boats? Wifi or bluetooth on board?? Its up to us to figure it out and do something,

I can't see how reversing will work if it wants to keep playing with a rudder, if its playing and you make it more of a game it might not get bored move on. And throwing ultrasound about in an environment where animals rely on that to feed with no idea of the consequences seems unwise. If i was involved in research on this the first thing I'd want to have was data on what electronics were operating on the boats that have been attacked.

I have read that Orcas tend to have a rather restricted diet and tend to go hungry when their staple fish is in short supply. The Iberian Orcas are partial to tunny. Tunny is in short supply due to over fishing. Could this make them peevish ?

I just looked up what they eat, no tuna in the north sea, and I'm mostly seeing the opposite said about them eg:

"It is important to note that orcas live in a vast range around the world, and several types of killer whales exist. Some of them might subsist mostly on seals while others, like resident killer whales, will mostly eat fish. Nevertheless, killer whales are not very picky when it comes to their food. They will feed on many foods to get the sustenance they need, and they need a lot of it!"

Surprising that fishermen don't want to kill the competition for fish. Maybe they'll take advantage of these attacks and offer to shoot on sight.

The one that buzzed my boat was 15-20ft long I'd guess and on its own. It seemed to be trying to provoke a reaction and it paused by the cockpit each time before diving again, it seemed to know I was the thing that might react not the boat as a whole. But how to know what it was thinking? Had it had a fun encounter with a human before? Expected fish to be thrown/discarded? Thought my black boat was a dead whale I was making off with and it wanted a piece? (nah surely they'd smell the difference) Who knows. As it s a new phenomenon my moneys on a problem caused by new technology maybe wifi or bluetooth on boats. Can't be echo sounders as they've been ubiquitous for so long.

 

[Adios]

They hunt with echo sounding and there must be a difference between an outgoing signal and a returning one or in a pod they'd keep wasting time picking up each others outgoing signals. That might explain why previously they aren't attracted to our depth sounders. Is there a new type of sounder? Are other newer electronic signals appearing like returning food hit signals?

Thinking about it how far would wifi travel through water when it can't reach the other side of my house?

 

[Graham376]

They hunt with echo sounding and there must be a difference between an outgoing signal and a returning one or in a pod they'd keep wasting time picking up each others outgoing signals. That might explain why previously they aren't attracted to our depth sounders. Is there a new type of sounder? Are other newer electronic signals appearing like returning food hit signals?

Thinking about it how far would wifi travel through water when it can't reach the other side of my house?

Certainly boats these days have far more electronic devices and wi-fi but I wouldn't have thought the last 2 - 3 years would be much different to the previous few years, to link to their sudden change of behaviour. At the moment all our cockpit instrument display power feeds are linked so will be inserting a switch to turn our depth sounder off when out of shallow water, just in case it attracts them.

 

[Kelpie]

From the reports and videos, seems to be all types from spade to full skeg with bottom shoe.

Three people I have met have had their boats attacked. One had a spade rudder, one had a skeg, and one had a fully supported rudder on long keel. The long keel boat was actually the one that suffered the most damage!