Orca attack

[BurnitBlue]

( watched ) on youtube just yesterday skip on a catamaran saying 150 interactions this year alone ?

It seems like all-out war has been declared on leisure boats. Why dont the Orca attack the smaller fishing boats. Opinion seems to indicate their main gripe is because of the over-fishing of the Tuna. They are supposed to be "highly intelligent". Surely they can tell tje difference between a smelly fishing boat and a yacht?

The Orca must surely have noticed the fishing boats actually hauling nets or lines of hooks with their precious tuna attached.

 

[cherod]

It seems like all-out war has been declared on leisure boats. Why dont the Orca attack the smaller fishing boats. Opinion seems to indicate their main gripe is because of the over-fishing of the Tuna. They are supposed to be "highly intelligent". Surely they can tell tje difference between a smelly fishing boat and a yacht?

The Orca must surely have noticed the fishing boats actually hauling nets or lines of hooks with their precious tuna attached.

You seem to be taking the opinion that there is a “ gripe “ following on that theses are attacks , this is not a wholly accepted opinion with another couple of theories around . Accepted that the reasons may be irrelevant during the attack / interaction , jumping to conclusions may not be the best way to solve the problem .

 

[sarabande]

You seem to be taking the opinion that there is a “ gripe “ following on that theses are attacks , this is not a wholly accepted opinion with another couple of theories around . Accepted that the reasons may be irrelevant during the attack / interaction , jumping to conclusions may not be the best way to solve the problem .

What are the other "couple of theories" please ?

 

[cherod]

What are the other "couple of theories" please ?

If yiu are interested i would have thot that you woukd already know ?. Anyway ( from what i have read / heard ) , simple playing , training young in hunting techniques , vying for mating rights , or just simply because they can !! these seem to be the most common , i am surprised that you do not already know of that.

 

[cherod]

I think it is over 200 already. 4 off Sines in one day a week or so ago.

- W

4 in one area on same day would indicate same pod ?

 

[webcraft]

I think the main issue is not why but how to stop it.

Some type of sonic repellent seems the obvious line of enquiry.

I would also like to know how many yachts have repelled unwanted attentions by going astern.

Someone somewhere should be compiling a database.

- W

 

[cherod]

I think the main issue is not why but how to stop it.

Some type of sonic repellent seems the obvious line of enquiry.

I would also like to know how many yachts have repelled unwanted attentions by going astern.

Someone somewhere should be compiling a database.

- W

Wholeheartedly agree , how many people are trying the reverse thing , or the trailing a dingy thing , or any other proactive measures , i think perhaps an issue is that the first thing that the boat knows is the rudder is being “ attacked “ then maybe too late , there are a couple of organisations down there doing some serious studys tho mostly seems to be cause rather than defencive .

 

[BurnitBlue]

You seem to be taking the opinion that there is a “ gripe “ following on that theses are attacks , this is not a wholly accepted opinion with another couple of theories around . Accepted that the reasons may be irrelevant during the attack / interaction , jumping to conclusions may not be the best way to solve the problem .

Yes I am. There must be a reason and without knowing the reason there can be no quick solution. Except of course to simply cull them. Even if a solution was arrived by accident it could be ignored for months because it would not be clear for some time. Like the new idea of reversing, which is at the moment debatable because it is not clear why the Orca want to bite rudders in the first place. A reason can be tested with data. For instance if fishing boats in the act of hauling tuna are not attacked we have a basis to ignore the tuna angle.

You seem to be setting yourself up as the expert. So lets hear your take on this situation. And forget that one in your last post that they are parents teaching their young to hunt. Since when has rudder hunting been on their diet. There are accounts of lone attacks, ie no young "pupils" around to teach them anything. I don't have any answers and I don't pretend to. I make guesses like everyone else I do not jump to conclusions.

 

[cherod]

Yes I am. There must be a reason and without knowing the reason there can be no quick solution. Except of course to simply cull them. Even if a solution was arrived by accident it could be ignored for months because it would not be clear for some time. Like the new idea of reversing, which is at the moment debatable because it is not clear why the Orca want to bite rudders in the first place. A reason can be tested with data. For instance if fishing boats in the act of hauling tuna are not attacked we have a basis to ignore the tuna angle.

You seem to be setting yourself up as the expert. So lets hear your take on this situation. And forget that one in your last post that they are parents teaching their young to hunt. Since when has rudder hunting been on their diet. There are accounts of lone attacks, ie no young "pupils" around to teach them anything. I don't have any answers and I don't pretend to. I make guesses like everyone else I do not jump to conclusions.

since when did i set myself up as an expert ? ,,, however in dismissing certain scinarios and offering other solutions it would seem that you are , so i will leave you to your greater knowledge , ,, i would tho not be dismissing the reversing practice , if it helps repel the orcas then that is certainly an improvment for whatever reason ,. you may wish to disagree .

 

[steveallan]

I am thinking of sticking a couple of swimming pool speakers inside the hull under the waterline.
Maybe playing some Queen music or would the 1812 overture be better.
Open to suggestions.

 

[greeny]

This'll stop the buggers.

 

[Kelpie]

Genuinely worried about this. We've got to get down the Atlantic coast in the next few weeks.
What's the latest thinking on how far off shore to stay?

 

[webcraft]

Genuinely worried about this. We've got to get down the Atlantic coast in the next few weeks.
What's the latest thinking on how far off shore to stay?

There doesn't seem to be any 'safe distance' - boats have been molested in less than 10 metres of water not far from the beach down near Barbate and - very recently - 40nm offshore off Cascais. These attacks tend to move up and down the coast, I would wait until they are happening well away from your current position (i.e either well N or well S) then get quickly off your mark. Make a longish passage, pull in somewhere and monitor the latest reports again.

If we are unfortunate enough to encounter the miserable mammals I intend to reverse slowly at 2-3 knots as this seems the best bet at the moment.

Best remember most boats are not molested and no-one has been badly hurt.

Covid, the 'B' thing and mad orcas . . . . how did cruising suddenly get so difficult?


- W

 

[Paulg25]

A few years ago I listened to a program on Radio 4, part of which was a discussion about shark 'attacks'. At the time there was debate about people being bitten by sharks (including Great Whites) but not eaten and a lot of them living to tell the tale. One of the guests, cannot remember his qualifications but they were relevant, postulated that the sharks were biting, not because they were hungry or just aggressive but because they were wondering what it was they had come across. If an animal with hands, apes for instance, encounter something new they may investigate it using various of their senses including touching and feeling it. Sharks and Orcas not having hands, do the feeling bit with their mouths. So 6 tons of Orca mouthing your rudder probably isn't an attack.

One other comment. Orcas live in the sea. They have no choice, it's where evolution put them. Humans have evolved such that they do have a choice... !

Wild killer whales are not considered a threat to humans, and no fatal attack on humans has ever been documented.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Up to now the only known solution appears to be putting the boat in reverse because Orca cannot swm backwards However, consider a yachr running down wind under poled out headsails or even, heavan forbid, a spinnaker. From the first indication of an attack when the rudder itself starts spinning the wheel, all mayhem could ensue on deck with collapsed sails. Getting sorted and stopping the boat will take time. Going into reverse against a following sea will not be easy. Some boats cannot reverse more than a few feet anyway.

I will be be "hopefully" heading that way next Spring. My plan is to sail under easy canvas, and use my outboard motor on a temporary transom bracket ticking over to give some deterrent to a "playfull" Orca. At least in the danger area.

However, I hope a commercial solution will be found before next Spring, especially if the solution is targeted based on the knowledge of WHY they are doing this.

 

[25931]

i believe many catamarans have also been targeted

The early cases were all awbs ,now some cats.Were all the boats white ? I haven't seen reports of fishing boats being involved, are they seen as fellow hunters rather than toys of .the idle rich ? Tourist motorboats go out looking for orcas but I haven't heard of one being attacked.
The statement that two of the pod (Gladys ?) have been injured needs amplification. Could the injuries have been caused deliberately ?

 

[cherod]

well, mostly those toys of the idle rich will be antifouled so few of them will be showing white from an Orca viewpoint .
fair chance some of those injuries have been deliberatly inflicted

 

[greeny]

There needs to be some serious analysis done on these attacks before a solution is found I believe.
I'm sure that some companies will start to sell anti orca devices soon. It'll be a good money spinner but will they work? A bit like anti barking devices for dogs?

The fact is, it's exclusively (afaik) limited to sailing boats. Mostly with large rudders at the back although cats and long keeled boats are also be being targeted occasionally.
Fishing boats and high/ medium speed tourist boats have not been affected, again afaik. They have small or no rudder at all in the case of outboards.
So small rudder = no attack, maybe. They also tend to be appreciably faster than a typical sailing boat, 15 knots plus as opposed to 5 to 9 knots. Another factor I would suggest.
What colour was the antifoul, can orca see colours underwater?
What electronics were in operation at the time?
What was the weather at the time of the attack. Do calm condition encourage the orca to play, has anyone been attacked in heavier conditions, big waves etc , I've not seen any reports that suggest this.

There's lots of data out there that needs to be pulled together and maybe a pattern will emerge that gives us a clue how to avoid or reduce the risk of attack.
Unfortunately it can't be done on a forum like this and needs to be done by an organisation that has the resources and contacts to gather all the info from officialdom across several countries.
That means one that has a funded interest in the situation from a sailing point of view. The only people showing any interest apart from sailors are the wildlife groups who are looking from an animal / conservation perspective rather than a sailor's.
Rich people playing in boats who lose a rudder now and again are not far up the governments funding lists I'm afraid.

 

[webcraft]

All this needs is a central reporting point and a database, well within the capabilities of an amateur group of interested sailors I would have thought.

- W

 

[Stingo]

All this needs is a central reporting point and a database, well within the capabilities of an amateur group of interested sailors I would have thought.

- W

Probably well within your IT skills. What about a sub-domain on bluemoment?