Orca attack

[Daydream believer]

It seems some in this thread are more interested in petty squabbling than the attacks that are going on off Cascais, Nazaire and Galicia over the last few days.

No squabbling. Just discussion. As for the original thread there is SFA that we can do about the Orcas if no one will go & cull the darned things. So sailors are stuck with it.
What do you propose- that we just go round and round and say “ Oh poor Orcas. It,s not their fault” . Well it b..y well is. They are the stupid animals causing the bother. A yacht or two sailing through our ( well it is as much ours as theirs) waters does no harm to them.
And just because the discussion does not suit your line of thought there is no need to get the hump. You can do what the Orcas should do— go elsewhere, or learn to live with it.

 

[Daydream believer]

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Useful addition to the discussion

 

[greeny]

No squabbling. Just discussion. As for the original thread there is SFA that we can do about the Orcas if no one will go & cull the darned things. So sailors are stuck with it.
What do you propose- that we just go round and round and say “ Oh poor Orcas. It,s not their fault” . Well it b..y well is. They are the stupid animals causing the bother. A yacht or two sailing through our ( well it is as much ours as theirs) waters does no harm to them.
And just because the discussion does not suit your line of thought there is no need to get the hump. You can do what the Orcas should do— go elsewhere, or learn to live with it.

I do live with it every day I go sailing in the affected areas, which is probably more often than you do. I don't propose that you go round saying anything, what you say is up to you but comments and arguments about subjects not really connected to orca attacks are not really helpful in this thread. If you want to have those discussion maybe a different thread or the Lounge would be more suited, IMHO. Leave this place for people who are genuinely interested in the orca attacks and the developments happening on that subject. You seem to think you know my line of thought - you are wrong. Try again.

 

[Bristolfashion]

No squabbling. Just discussion. As for the original thread there is SFA that we can do about the Orcas if no one will go & cull the darned things. So sailors are stuck with it.
What do you propose- that we just go round and round and say “ Oh poor Orcas. It,s not their fault” . Well it b..y well is. They are the stupid animals causing the bother. A yacht or two sailing through our ( well it is as much ours as theirs) waters does no harm to them.
And just because the discussion does not suit your line of thought there is no need to get the hump. You can do what the Orcas should do— go elsewhere, or learn to live with it.

In what way can an animal be at fault? Do we know that we do no harm? Perhaps shipping noise disturbs them, perhaps one or more has been struck by a boat, perhaps fishing & other commercial exploitation has damaged them and so on.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Probably the same humanity despising idiots that think it cute to have wolves reintroduced in the woods where little children used to play.

Wolves are not cute, but apex predators are important for the healthy functioning of an ecosystem.

Wolf attacks are rare - if you want to save lives & injuries, you'd be better off eradicating bees.

Do you accept that we should learn to live with potentially dangerous or inconvenient animals or should we eradicate every last one of them?

 

[Zing]

Wolves are not cute, but apex predators are important for the healthy functioning of an ecosystem.

Wolf attacks are rare - if you want to save lives & injuries, you'd be better off eradicating bees.

Do you accept that we should learn to live with potentially dangerous or inconvenient animals or should we eradicate every last one of them?

Oh dear an animal lover/humanity hater I wrote about has exposed himself with spurious arguments for his cause.

No, we don’t need wolves to make the ecosystem function. It works fine without them.

That attacks are rare is no argument to justify introducing a man-killer animal. To say otherwise is to say the occasional animal killing of people is fine.

That bees and other animals kill people doesn’t mean we should have more animals that kill people. It’s a non sequitur to suggest that.

Some animals, not all should be eradicated completely as they serve no useful function. Mosquitos for one.

 

[mil1194]

In what way can an animal be at fault? Do we know that we do no harm? Perhaps shipping noise disturbs them, perhaps one or more has been struck by a boat, perhaps fishing & other commercial exploitation has damaged them and so on.

No wonder they’re attacking the saily boats if they’re being subjected to this behaviour

“ Sailors have resorted to everything from throwing sand in the water to setting off fireworks to blasting thrash metal music in efforts to ward off the encroaching predators.‘

Killer whales attack another sailboat off Spain, prompting complex rescue that injures crewmember

 

[Bristolfashion]

Oh dear an animal lover/humanity hater I wrote about has exposed himself with spurious arguments for his cause.

No, we don’t need wolves to make the ecosystem function. It works fine without them.

That attacks are rare is no argument to justify introducing a man-killer animal. To say otherwise is to say the occasional animal killing of people is fine.

That bees and other animals kill people doesn’t mean we should have more animals that kill people. It’s a non sequitur to suggest that.

Some animals, not all should be eradicated completely as they serve no useful function. Mosquitos for one.

Apex predators are an important part of the balance in an ecosystem. You reveal your ignorance.

It's not a matter of animal lover / human hater, humans are part of nature and need to live with it, not just destroy it wholesale.

And, on mosquitos,

While they can seem pointless and purely irritating to us humans, mosquitoes do play a substantial role in the ecosystem. Mosquitoes form an important source of biomass in the food chain—serving as food for fish as larvae and for birds, bats and frogs as adult flies—and some species are important pollinators.

 

[Sianna]

a weird shift in this thread, so perhaps some clarification is needed:

Orca


Orangutan




I hope this is helpful

 

[Bristolfashion]

a weird shift in this thread, so perhaps some clarification is needed:

Orca
View attachment 182097

Orangutan

View attachment 182098


I hope this is helpful

The debate about the control of interactions with another species can be illuminated by reference to a different species.

Hope this is helpful

 

[Koeketiene]

It seems some in this thread are more interested in petty squabbling than the attacks that are going on off Cascais, Nazaire and Galicia over the last few days.

What did you expect?
On this subject everything intelligent has already been said (though maybe not by everybody).

With no practical solution in sight (at this time) all that remains is squabbling by the 'these orcas need to be culled' camp vs the 'don't you dare hurt these cuddly creatures' camp.

 

[Daydream believer]

No, we don’t need wolves to make the ecosystem function. It works fine without them.

Actually that is not entirely true. Yellowstone national park was having eco issues. To cut a long story short deer etc we’re eating the roots of plants by the river and altering its flow. This killed marsh areas etc.
They found that this coincided with the culling of wolves that allowed some species to thrive un naturally. Re introducing wolves has started to swing the balance and the park is coming alive again
Now I am not suggesting we should introduce wolves and- for that matter- wild boar Willy nilly. But there is a case
However, getting back to orcas, it has been suggested that a pod of 15 may be at fault. Considering that the world wide population of orcas is quite large I would have thought that culling that pod would prevent other orcas being unfairly blamed and could be left alone. If the matter is not dealt with. It will get worse and more orcas will be harmed.
I expect that the tuna population might benefit as well

 

[Daydream believer]

In what way can an animal be at fault? Do we know that we do no harm? Perhaps shipping noise disturbs them, perhaps one or more has been struck by a boat, perhaps fishing & other commercial exploitation has damaged them and so on.

Fault? Whose? Well it was not a ruddy great seagull, was it. Yachts have been sailing the seas for centuries and I do not recall any complaints- unless you include Moby Dick

 

[Daydream believer]

No wonder they’re attacking the saily boats if they’re being subjected to this behaviour

Wrong. The first orca did not think “s..t, they are going to chuck a bucket of sand at me and play crap music so I will go an bite their rudder off” NO! the orca went “ I know I will bite his b..y rudder off”
THEN someone chucked a bucket of sand.
In other words. They started it

 

[mil1194]

Wrong. The first orca did not think “s..t, they are going to chuck a bucket of sand at me and play crap music so I will go an bite their rudder off” NO! the orca went “ I know I will bite his b..y rudder off”
THEN someone chucked a bucket of sand.
In other words. They started it

My post was meant to be amusing - to be honest if I was sailing through there and got ‘attacked’ I’d probably have tried anything as well.

 

[Daydream believer]

I do live with it every day I go sailing in the affected areas, which is probably more often than you do. I don't propose that you go round saying anything, what you say is up to you but comments and arguments about subjects not really connected to orca attacks are not really helpful in this thread. If you want to have those discussion maybe a different thread or the Lounge would be more suited, IMHO. Leave this place for people who are genuinely interested in the orca attacks and the developments happening on that subject. You seem to think you know my line of thought - you are wrong. Try again.

Conversations evolve. Walk into any pub and meet a group of friends. After the first round someone will start a subject and soon that subject gets lost in the general chatter. The bloke that tries to stay on it soon gets known as the nerd and left out. So be warned

 

[Cheery]

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

No, I woke up exactly as I expected. Now, do you wish to counter my statement that if you live here you are benefiting from our heritage.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Fault? Whose? Well it was not a ruddy great seagull, was it. Yachts have been sailing the seas for centuries and I do not recall any complaints- unless you include Moby Dick

I was asking a rather philosophical question. Can an animal be "at fault" for anything in the way that we can attribute this to humans? Animals, generally don't have an understanding of cause and outcomes in the same way we do.

We also have the problem that we have no way of knowing their motivation - do they "believe" they are defending themselves? Are they just playing with a strange floating object with no conception of harm?

 

[Bristolfashion]

Actually that is not entirely true. Yellowstone national park was having eco issues. To cut a long story short deer etc we’re eating the roots of plants by the river and altering its flow. This killed marsh areas etc.
They found that this coincided with the culling of wolves that allowed some species to thrive un naturally. Re introducing wolves has started to swing the balance and the park is coming alive again
Now I am not suggesting we should introduce wolves and- for that matter- wild boar Willy nilly. But there is a case
However, getting back to orcas, it has been suggested that a pod of 15 may be at fault. Considering that the world wide population of orcas is quite large I would have thought that culling that pod would prevent other orcas being unfairly blamed and could be left alone. If the matter is not dealt with. It will get worse and more orcas will be harmed.
I expect that the tuna population might benefit as well

There are about 16,000 people for each orca.

Culling a whole pod with the associated genetic loss seems very harsh.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Wrong. The first orca did not think “s..t, they are going to chuck a bucket of sand at me and play crap music so I will go an bite their rudder off” NO! the orca went “ I know I will bite his b..y rudder off”
THEN someone chucked a bucket of sand.
In other words. They started it

Um, how do you know that "they started it"? Perhaps an orca was injured or scared in an interaction and we started it. Perhaps we have inadvertently designed the perfect orca toy and they are as powerless as a toddler at the sweet counter to ignore it. Perhaps the first accidental interaction triggered an overreaction from the boat occupants and that started it.

You really don't know.