Optimum boat size

[RupertW]

Our 42 footer seems about right though it is sometimes tempting to look at other larger boats around us. The main advantages of being a bit larger than our last 31 footer is a much more stable platform making the sailing easier to manage, plus of course the feeling of space and flexibility of lots of cabins (well it seems like lots to us) for storage when just the two of us on long trips and sleeping space for different combinations of guests.

Harbour work is mostly no harder but that is based on using the boat the way most aft cockpit boats are designed which is to reverse in fendered up at the stern and both sides and hold the wide stern fendered against the quay whilst sorting everything out.

 

[Chae_73]

Is it worth spending money on improving the Storm? Whatever you do will only be marginal, may cost a lot of money and still not deal with the basic issues.

Yes, this is part of the dilemma. I'm aware that money spent on a 30+ year old boat is won't have a big impact on what we get back when selling it. That doesn't matter if its for the long term, but if not, it makes more sense just to do basic maintenance and put the cash towards a bigger budget for a newer boat.

 

[pvb]

Yes, this is part of the dilemma. I'm aware that money spent on a 30+ year old boat is won't have a big impact on what we get back when selling it. That doesn't matter if its for the long term, but if not, it makes more sense just to do basic maintenance and put the cash towards a bigger budget for a newer boat.

Perhaps give it another year getting to know the Storm, then decide whether or not it's a keeper? You're right to say that any money you spend on it won't increase its value significantly.

 

[fredrussell]

Yes, this is part of the dilemma. I'm aware that money spent on a 30+ year old boat is won't have a big impact on what we get back when selling it. That doesn't matter if its for the long term, but if not, it makes more sense just to do basic maintenance and put the cash towards a bigger budget for a newer boat.

I would say that just the fact that you’re having these thoughts suggests that you may not have arrived at ‘the keeper’.
I’m fairly confident that I’ll keep my 31 footer for at least the next ten years because a) it perfectly suits my needs, and b) I can’t afford an Ovni 390 and nor am I likely to any time soon!

 

[westernman]

It is not just size - but also kind of boat.

For instance, you could always go for a 30ft Beneteau such as this one:
-

Or for something much more tame such as a 27ft Beneteau like this one:-

Or if you want to cross oceans on a boat which will be comfortable in a storm then my 52ft Pilot Cutter might be interesting;-

 

[[2574]]

One’s sailing region is important, The Solent is largely about marinas, therefore stay under 12m. Scotland is a lot about anchoring so bigger boats are more easily accommodated and managed. The West Country falls in between the two aforementioned. Don’t know how the East Coast fits in.

 

[Daydream believer]

Whilst I have loved my 31 ft boat for the last 17 years I am now wishing I had a larger boat. However, there is a limit. As I get older i want a more stable platform without loss of performance.
I did look at a 37 ft boat but then I realised the problems when things go wrong.There is a lot of sail on a big boat & if it all goes Ok there is no hassle. berthing is not so hard if one knows what one is doing & well practiced. So that is not such a big issue.

It all boils down to what happens when things go t..ts up.
In my 31 ft boat One night when 20 miles offshore, en route Cherbourg - Dieppe my autopilot failed, my torch failed so I could not see, I got hooked to something, stern on in 25kts of wind, I could not drop the sails properly. The end of the boom went in the water . Everything got tangled. I could see nothing in the dark. I had no compass light. I was not using a chart plotter, so became disorientated. I became sea sick. The boat was rolling with the wind up the chuff but held hard with waves breaking over the stern. I could not get the sail down with the wind jamming it against the shrouds.
Times like that one does not want a 40 ft boat with all the weight of sails etc. One is going to get older & so fitness has to be considered
I reckon a 34-35 ft boat with a 105% jib & all lines lead aft is the way to go. Everything MUST work. It is no good going to sea with poor ropework etc. The most important thing is a good autopilot. The winches must be big enough & really should be self tailing in these modern times so one can winch one handed. But keep jib size down as it is easier to hand a mainsail with single line reefing from the cockpit than tacking a big genoa.
So the boat the OP chooses has to not only be the right size it has to be the right layout & it has to be fit for purpose.

 

[pvb]

Don’t know how the East Coast fits in.

It's all shallow water and endless mud banks. Nothing to see. Move along please....

 

[Tranona]

It's all shallow water and endless mud banks. Nothing to see. Move along please....

Don't forget the good beer.

 

[Chae_73]

Perhaps give it another year getting to know the Storm, then decide whether or not it's a keeper? You're right to say that any money you spend on it won't increase its value significantly.

Yes, no intention change boat for at least a year, more likely two years.

We have not explored the capabilities of the Storm at all yet, and this season will mainly be getting to know the boat.

I tend to think ahead (somewhat compulsively), and some decisions, such as whether or not to replace the engine, will be influenced by how long we are thinking of keeping the boat.

 

[Chae_73]

Don't forget the good beer.

I don't think south coasters will like it.

 

[pvb]

Don't forget the good beer.

Filthy stuff! Adnams? Pah!

 

[mjcoon]

Whilst I have loved my 31 ft boat for the last 17 years I am now wishing I had a larger boat. However, there is a limit. As I get older i want a more stable platform without loss of performance.
I did look at a 37 ft boat but then I realised the problems when things go wrong.There is a lot of sail on a big boat & if it all goes Ok there is no hassle. berthing is not so hard if one knows what one is doing & well practiced. So that is not such a big issue.

It all boils down to what happens when things go t..ts up.
In my 31 ft boat One night when 20 miles offshore, en route Cherbourg - Dieppe my autopilot failed, my torch failed so I could not see, I got hooked to something, stern on in 25kts of wind, I could not drop the sails properly. The end of the boom went in the water . Everything got tangled. I could see nothing in the dark. I had no compass light. I was not using a chart plotter, so became disorientated. I became sea sick. The boat was rolling with the wind up the chuff but held hard with waves breaking over the stern. I could not get the sail down with the wind jamming it against the shrouds.
Times like that one does not want a 40 ft boat with all the weight of sails etc. One is going to get older & so fitness has to be considered
I reckon a 34-35 ft boat with a 105% jib & all lines lead aft is the way to go. Everything MUST work. It is no good going to sea with poor ropework etc. The most important thing is a good autopilot. The winches must be big enough & really should be self tailing in these modern times so one can winch one handed. But keep jib size down as it is easier to hand a mainsail with single line reefing from the cockpit than tacking a big genoa.
So the boat the OP chooses has to not only be the right size it has to be the right layout & it has to be fit for purpose.

Ooh lash out some cash on a spare torch! (Can you have too many? Even multiple headtorches...)

 

[James_Calvert]

Whilst I have loved my 31 ft boat for the last 17 years I am now wishing I had a larger boat. However, there is a limit. As I get older i want a more stable platform without loss of performance.
I did look at a 37 ft boat but then I realised the problems when things go wrong.There is a lot of sail on a big boat & if it all goes Ok there is no hassle. berthing is not so hard if one knows what one is doing & well practiced. So that is not such a big issue.

It all boils down to what happens when things go t..ts up.
In my 31 ft boat One night when 20 miles offshore, en route Cherbourg - Dieppe my autopilot failed, my torch failed so I could not see, I got hooked to something, stern on in 25kts of wind, I could not drop the sails properly. The end of the boom went in the water . Everything got tangled. I could see nothing in the dark. I had no compass light. I was not using a chart plotter, so became disorientated. I became sea sick. The boat was rolling with the wind up the chuff but held hard with waves breaking over the stern. I could not get the sail down with the wind jamming it against the shrouds.
Times like that one does not want a 40 ft boat with all the weight of sails etc. One is going to get older & so fitness has to be considered
I reckon a 34-35 ft boat with a 105% jib & all lines lead aft is the way to go. Everything MUST work. It is no good going to sea with poor ropework etc. The most important thing is a good autopilot. The winches must be big enough & really should be self tailing in these modern times so one can winch one handed. But keep jib size down as it is easier to hand a mainsail with single line reefing from the cockpit than tacking a big genoa.
So the boat the OP chooses has to not only be the right size it has to be the right layout & it has to be fit for purpose.

Just curious after the mishap you recount here why you don't think a small main and a big genoa has some advantage?

Both easier to get down or furl when pinned with the wind astern I would have thought.

 

[Mark-1]

2m bigger than you currently have seems to be the general rule!

I must be unique. I've got a cramped 21 footer and I constantly fantasize about a West Wight Potter 15.

In contrast, when chartering, 42ft is the absolute smallest appropriate for a couple.

 

[matt1]

In the last couple of years I transitioned from a 31’ to 40’ (Solent based btw)

I’ll echo other comments here that it was transformational going for a bigger new boat (The 31’ was also new when I bought her in 2006). Modern autopilots (esp with wheel steering) and electric winches / remote controlled bowthruster make the bigger boat much easier to sail. She’s also significantly better behaved!

That said the draft, size (& single Vs twin keel) have precluded many of the places I could squeeze the 31’ into from being available to me. Also, despite the boat being paid for, I do (for the first time) have that “guilt” feeling when not using the boat as it’s an expensive asset that costs significantly more to run each year.

I’m occasionally genuinely envious of a little Hunter 21 I see ploughing up and down the Hamble and reckon that is what I will be in about 15 years from now

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

We all have different "optimum" levels. My optimum for living accommodation is a 45 feet, for expenditure is 24 feet and for easy handling is 27 feet. The Storm has been a successful design and people love them; as always, it is good to change things around to fit our personal requirements. Nowadays, I sail a well fitted out rear cockpit Moody 33S which I see as a compromise. Overall, the older I get, I prefer more compact boats that are also able to go in open water too. Few people I know are downsizing to below 30 feet light modern design fast boats, easy to maintain and to manage; see the attached youtube video.

 

[Moodysailor]

Just a tuppence worth regarding sailplan & bigger boats, ours is an old design - ketch rig & 130% genoa. 44ft yacht. We can reduce headsail in any weather as we just take the furling line to a winch if needed. The main is another issue however - with lines at the mast and older mast/track we reduce sail early. But that is just a factor in how we 'manage' our boat so as not to cause ourselves too much stress - my point is that I personally haven't noticed it any harder working the sails on this boat as I did our 26', or 32' Bermudan yachts. The only one that was as much to be respected as enjoyed was our gaff cutter ?? IMO, it's about finding what works for you, your sailing style, and your preferences.

Being bigger usually, but not always makes the motion easier, but hull shape, keel type & displacement has a lot to do with it too. I'm not arguing with anyone's opinion or point of view, just making an observation.

Our current boat is the biggest we have owned, and I will agree that coming alongside is the one area that we notice a difference. Having a thruster certainly means we have a lot of help, but being long keel we need it and we are very, very careful to a) not let anyone get in-between the boat and anything else and b) to communicate very clearly between ourselves and anyone else that is helping. I am fortunate that I was taught what I consider to be the "proper way" - i'e don't make a leap of faith to the pontoon, do only what the skipper says (and when they say it), and use the lines to hold/move the boat, not your body. That comes from years of moving around big powerful mobo's, and the way I was taught by my dad - those skills are transferable across any boat size and has kept us safe and in good stead when things have occasionally been "sketchy" coming alongside.

What we are practicing now, and getting better at are our short-handed skills. We find we need to be better at these as we mostly sail with two of us now (and don't want to have to rely on others) and because it's a long way from the back to the front, and there are tips & tricks that work well to make things much simpler.

 

[Tranona]

Just a tuppence worth regarding sailplan & bigger boats, ours is an old design - ketch rig & 130% genoa. 44ft yacht. We can reduce headsail in any weather as we just take the furling line to a winch if needed. The main is another issue however - with lines at the mast and older mast/track we reduce sail early. But that is just a factor in how we 'manage' our boat so as not to cause ourselves too much stress - my point is that I personally haven't noticed it any harder working the sails on this boat as I did our 26', or 32' Bermudan yachts.

I expect even at 130% your genoa is smaller than that on a Westerly Storm. Beauty of ketches is reducing size of individual sails to make them easier to handle. This is part of the reason they were popular before the improvements in sails and sail handling. Dealing with a 330sq ft. genoa on a lively 5 tons is a challenge, particularly when tacking or reducing sail - very different from 15 tons of stable Moody!

 

[Moodysailor]

I expect even at 130% your genoa is smaller than that on a Westerly Storm. Beauty of ketches is reducing size of individual sails to make them easier to handle. This is part of the reason they were popular before the improvements in sails and sail handling. Dealing with a 330sq ft. genoa on a lively 5 tons is a challenge, particularly when tacking or reducing sail - very different from 15 tons of stable Moody!

We're about 60sq.ft bigger on the genoa than the storm, but that's semantics as your point is right, and both are big heavy sails none the less. I do like the sail spread on a ketch for the reasons you say but also because the centre of effort is lower. Probably why I like gaff boats so much too.