OOD duty - no fun!

[roblpm]

I do OOD duty as well as race, and I have had similar experiences to yourself. People wj=ho race want to win - it matters to them. So if the OOD makes a mistake, he can expect some moans. I had complaints a couple of weeks ago, and I suspect they may have been justified in that both boats that I had 3 and 4 complained they were the wrong way round. But nobody else confirmed this so the results stood. There was no protest committee. When in the past there have been protest committees then they have been a bit formal but thats the nature of things. On the other side of the coin, I get complements about the courses set and get bought drinks at the bar for the pain of standing on the club balcony for three hours or more ( inc mid winter).

I wouldnt say you were thin ski98nned because I dont know how obnoxious your fellow members were. But as an OOD, you arent above either criticism or mistakes. Neither are the competitors.

I see OOD as a way of putting something back in and in return for the fun I have racing. And I do enjoy it, particularly the course setting bit. Its a real challenge in tidal waters and with boats ranging from 0.8 to 1.05 in two fleets

Thanks for that.

A) I am thin skinned
B) The reason that i was irritated was that I wasn't the ood. The ood was am experienced guy whose crew obviously evaporated when ood duty arrived. I am a naive newbie who volunteered to help out without realising the almost legal responsibility I was setting myself up for. I will obviously do ood once a year as a skipper of a boat. I will never help any of the others out again if they are short.

 

[Seajet]

The snag with this seemingly laudable attitude is that time and again it's the newcomers - or usually uninvolved cruiser sailors - who get ' volunteered ' while the old guard racing sailors expect to remain untouched.

My club runs OOD / general race officer training ( also safety boat, RYA motor boat levels, dinghy instruction etc courses ) which help a lot and are a huge step in the right direction; however it's far from a racing club so I don't see why I should give up a weekend* to help the regular racers.

* Remember an afternoon spent buggering about helping dinghies means a whole weekend gone for a cruiser.

If it was a race oriented club like HISC I'd understand being volunteered for race officer duty a lot more ( I was a member there briefly as a cruiser owner but found the moorings and water taxi poor at the time ) - but I'd still be wary of the ' good old chaps ' taking advantage at any club !

So being a member of a club for 48 years with fast boats and helping members, about 20 years of which were without trendy racers bothering anyone or requiring to have myself tattooed with go fast stripes across my forehead, don't count then as long as I've got this year's model of the Laser-Guided missile wonderjob.

I don't know many strictly racing clubs around - dinghy or cruiser - but lots of racers rely on cruiser funding to keep the places going.

Seems to me this is why the cruiser / racer, JOG & Mini Transat/ Jester movements were set up.

lw395,

precisely ! Now let's see the racing people help the cruisers, anywhere.

One thing the racing lot don't get is that that the vast majority of cruiser sailors have ' been there, done that ' !

 

[lpdsn]

So being a member of a club for 48 years with fast boats and helping members, about 20 years of which were without trendy racers bothering anyone or requiring to have myself tattooed with go fast stripes across my forehead, don't count then as long as I've got this year's model of the Laser-Guided missile wonderjob.

I don't know many strictly racing clubs around - dinghy or cruiser - but lots of racers rely on cruiser funding to keep the places going.

Seems to me this is why the cruiser / racer, JOG & Mini Transat/ Jester movements were set up.

lw395,

precisely ! Now let's see the racing people help the cruisers, anywhere.

One thing the racing lot don't get is that that the vast majority of cruiser sailors have ' been there, done that ' !

Interesting rant. Don't think I've ever raced anywhere where cruising club members have been called upon to help with or fund racing. If anything, the bar takings from all the extra crew the racers have dragged in have been a handy source of income.

Probably the closest is the Cork Yacht Club (I think there's an R in front that stands for Republic or something) where the cruising members are expected to bugger off for a week every couple of years to make room for visiting racers, but the bar prices are significantly lower when they come back.

 

[Birdseye]

One thing the racing lot don't get is that that the vast majority of cruiser sailors have ' been there, done that ' !

I could say that " mostly they have done it and failed, which is why they have given up". As a sweeping generalisation its probably about as true as yours is.

However, this board is about racing. You arent a racer any longer so bu66er off!

 

[PabloPicasso]

I was primarily a racing sailor for more than 40 years. Mainly small multihulls but also some bigger boat stuff too. There are always people who think it is OK to moan to/about the race officer, usually the ones who are permanent middle fleet people. Unfortunately it comes with the territory. Most clubs operate on a duty system with everyone taking their turn but usually the PRO is pretty experienced and can handle the whingers. You just have to learn to take complaints in your stride while trying to be better next time as you will never please everyone every time. Just remember that without you they would have no racing at all and their complains would be much more then!
Just get on and enjoy your own racing and treat officiating as a challenge and learning experience. You can learn a lot about mistakes others make from the vantage point
I came ashore after winning a race 9 years ago and just decided I'd finished the last one. Sold the boat and bought a pure cruiser which I've been very happy on ever since. Still watch the racing with enjoyment and still occasionally act as PRO but no desire to join in again.

In Sunday/amateur soccer the referees get loads of stick. So even if they completely cock it up the Sunday leagues are only a bit of fun, but some of these guys have been assaulted, threatened and so on. It's just the British hooligan mentality. What a shame some sailors (a small minority hopefully) are bringing football attitude to the water.

 

[GrahamD]

Thanks for that.

A) I am thin skinned
B) The reason that i was irritated was that I wasn't the ood. The ood was am experienced guy whose crew obviously evaporated when ood duty arrived. I am a naive newbie who volunteered to help out without realising the almost legal responsibility I was setting myself up for. I will obviously do ood once a year as a skipper of a boat. I will never help any of the others out again if they are short.

Was the "inquest" formal because it was a actually a request for redress under the racing rules? If so, this might have given a more formal structure to the meeting.

One of the best ways to learn how to be a good Race Officer is to work with other experienced Race Officers and observe what they do. It seems that you have had an unfortunate experience, but it would be a shame if this puts you off.

 

[roblpm]

Was the "inquest" formal because it was a actually a request for redress under the racing rules? If so, this might have given a more formal structure to the meeting.

One of the best ways to learn how to be a good Race Officer is to work with other experienced Race Officers and observe what they do. It seems that you have had an unfortunate experience, but it would be a shame if this puts you off.

Yes you are quite right. My point is that i volunteered to help out and ended up in a formal enquiry. It was not my rota duty. Thats not my idea of fun. So I will be doing all I can to avoid it in the future. If someone writes the times down wrong for us i would never insist on this for a Wednesday night race. I can understand for a regatta but not for a Wednesday night club race. I have no desire to be a race officer, but understand the need for a rota. This means people are doing it once a year and the standard will be variable. I accept that. Seems like others don't.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

In Sunday/amateur soccer the referees get loads of stick. So even if they completely cock it up the Sunday leagues are only a bit of fun, but some of these guys have been assaulted, threatened and so on. It's just the British hooligan mentality. What a shame some sailors (a small minority hopefully) are bringing football attitude to the water.

I know a guy who referees in amateur minor league football. He has been trained and accredited by the FA; it's a serious thing for him. Of course he takes some stick; even parents can get a bit uppity if their darling gets awarded a red card or something! But the point I want to make is that he has some serious training behind him and is regularly assessed. He also has to maintain a pretty high fitness level! It seems to me that most of what I'm seeing here is because OOD requires skills and knowledge that only an experienced racer would gain through the sport, and which it is not reasonable to expect someone new to the sport to have gained.

Once again I must mention that I don't, and never have raced - I can't see the point Of course, if someone happens to be travelling in the same direction as me, it's nice to get there first!

 

[Seajet]

I could say that " mostly they have done it and failed, which is why they have given up". As a sweeping generalisation its probably about as true as yours is.

However, this board is about racing. You arent a racer any longer so bu66er off!

I seem to remember a few wins - out of large fleets -and generally being near the front.

As I do take part in at least one friendly cruiser race a year and the cup already has my name on it from previous wins, you go and do the buggering.

 

[lw395]

......but understand the need for a rota. This means people are doing it once a year and the standard will be variable. I accept that. Seems like others don't.

Variable standards are one thing, there have been a few cases of people willfully not making an effort, that's not acceptable.

I was at a rules talk from an international judge last year, he was saying that in Britain, we are developing a bad attitude to the rules and race management at club level.
It's too much 'rules don't matter, it's only fun in the club'.
In other countries people are much happier to debate the rules (like colregs on here!) and accept they might have been wrong, learn and move on.

Your clerical error should have been spotted, a procedure gone through and a correction made.
I'm guessing you would not get upset if say you'd posted a draft report of something and someone pointed out an error? That's all it seems to be.

 

[Birdseye]

The core issue here is the OP getting upset when the enquiry / protest committee / whatever was formal and he was questioned. Could be that a member of the committee was a solicitor or plod or something similar. But if being questioned upsets the OP then it is best that he doesnt do the OOD duty - sailing is supposed to be fun and being OOD isnt fun for him.

I have raced at both my clubs. One of them takes a very dim view indeed of protests - it isnt the done thing and the racing is pretty casual. The other takes a more serious / formal view of things particularly amaongst the IRC fleet who mostly do nothinbg with their boats but race. So even the evening series are serious races for them. And they are entitled to follow the formal procedures laid down by ISAF

 

[lpdsn]

It's too much 'rules don't matter, it's only fun in the club'.

He's right. The problem with that approach is that it is far from even handed as some people are far more aggressive about ignoring the rules when it's to their advantage. I did a bit of club racing a few years ago where those that considered themselves pack leaders would do things like shove a leeward boat down if they were over the line themselves, or simply ignore mark rules, or even port/starboard when they were inconvenient. Had to persuade the owner to actually start targetting them (actually setting up situations to force them to tack or gybe off, for example) till they got they message we weren't underlings to be shoved out of the way.

I far prefer serious IRC racing where people know the rules, although you do get those that think trying it on in the protest room is part of the game.

 

[roblpm]

The core issue here is the OP getting upset when the enquiry / protest committee / whatever was formal and he was questioned. Could be that a member of the committee was a solicitor or plod or something similar. But if being questioned upsets the OP then it is best that he doesnt do the OOD duty - sailing is supposed to be fun and being OOD isnt fun for him.

I have raced at both my clubs. One of them takes a very dim view indeed of protests - it isnt the done thing and the racing is pretty casual. The other takes a more serious / formal view of things particularly amaongst the IRC fleet who mostly do nothinbg with their boats but race. So even the evening series are serious races for them. And they are entitled to follow the formal procedures laid down by ISAF

I did say I had a thin skin!!

You are right though. Some people taking it seriously which is fine. However I shouldn't have volunteered to help as quite frankly I don't want that level of responsibility when I go sailing for relaxation.

As I said before I will now do my rota and enlist an experienced race officer to help supervise. And I will never help out again even if that results in the race being cancelled.

Its not how I would run it but I suppose as some people have pointed out if standards go down there is potentially no bottom.

 

[lw395]

In most clubs, there are many other ways to 'do your bit'.
I'm sorry it went sour for you.

One of the most important things you can do for your club is to be someone that others want to race against.

 

[Birdseye]

As I said before I will now do my rota and enlist an experienced race officer to help supervise. And I will never help out again even if that results in the race being cancelled.

.

Thats a shame. How about giving it another go just to see if the first one was typical. OOD is fun.

You arent the only one who is "sensitive". I dont do protests hearings any longer myself. My first three were all decided against me and whilst one was correct the other two decisions definitely werent. I wont speculate on the reason. So when I was last protested on the water I did my 360 even though it wasnt a valid protest.

 

[roblpm]

Well hilariously we haven't even been racing this year.

Get rostered to do ood duty the week before we start.

Very difficult evening. Had an experienced race officer with us.

Very light wind so none of the prescribed courses were suitable.

Managed to set a windward leeward course. Timed everyone how the exp race officer thought it had to be done.

Had to can the race and wind back as about 5 boats were stuck going backwards in the tide for about half an hour.

Got ranted at in the clubhouse. (apology by text the next day). Now a ranty email from someone else.

It really is an odd way of doing things!!

 

[crewman]

Well hilariously we haven't even been racing this year.

Get rostered to do ood duty the week before we start.

Very difficult evening. Had an experienced race officer with us.

Very light wind so none of the prescribed courses were suitable.

Managed to set a windward leeward course. Timed everyone how the exp race officer thought it had to be done.

Had to can the race and wind back as about 5 boats were stuck going backwards in the tide for about half an hour.

Got ranted at in the clubhouse. (apology by text the next day). Now a ranty email from someone else.

It really is an odd way of doing things!!

Rob, last year when Ood I abandoned the race after delaying for 30 minutes waiting for the wind to fill in. As we raised the abandon flag the wind filled in. Yes I got flak, but next week it was forgotten. Sailing in strong tides means you need a reasonable wind.

 

[roblpm]

Rob, last year when Ood I abandoned the race after delaying for 30 minutes waiting for the wind to fill in. As we raised the abandon flag the wind filled in. Yes I got flak, but next week it was forgotten. Sailing in strong tides means you need a reasonable wind.

Sure.

But I don't like the culture that it is acceptable to have a go at the OOD on the understanding that it is forgotten next week. I would never have a go at the race officer for anything. Obviously redress and protests have to be dealt with but "flak" seems to be accepted.

Weird.

 

[Birdseye]

Sure.

But I don't like the culture that it is acceptable to have a go at the OOD on the understanding that it is forgotten next week. I would never have a go at the race officer for anything. Obviously redress and protests have to be dealt with but "flak" seems to be accepted.

Weird.

It isnt acceptable. Its bloody bad manners. Nothing to do with sailing and everything to do with a bad upbringing. Unfortunately YOBS abound these days in every area of life.

But dont get upset. get even. Add 10 secs onto their time in the next race. Or notice them over the start line.

 

[rwoofer]

It's too much 'rules don't matter, it's only fun in the club'.

Missed this thread the first time round, but that comment definitely applies in my club on the outskirts of London. I think part of the problem is we seem to have so many other rules in life, we just want to escape them when sailing. Perhaps if we were less rule driven in life, we might be more likely to treat rules as part of the game.