Oh no...another "which boat" thread...

[Malo37]

As I read the original post I was thinking Westerly Storm before I saw the shortlist.
Check for Westerly issues like roof lining, osmosis and heavily rusted keel. Otherwise a great boat if you can find one in good nick or a cheap fixer upper. (I know where there is one)

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Dehler 34. Wheel steering, good RAF, sails well, fractional rig, what's not to like?

Dehler, nice. Might even find a Dehler 36 CWS for the OPs budget.

 

[yoda]

The Dehler 36 is a great boat if the budget goes that far, The storm is also a cracking boat but the aft cabin may be a little bit less than you are after. Of course I am biased but the Nic 345 is a great boat with a gem of an aft cabin and seems to meet your requirements once the forecabin is fitted out - but you may struggle to find one.

Yoda

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I like lots of strings to play with too and I'm going to beg you to remove the wheel from the features list. Under deck autopilots are doable on a lot* of boats.

I've only had a short sail of a First 31.7, but I liked it.

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1443033/ might take an offer?

*Edit. It has been pointed out to me that under deck pilots are doable only on some types of boat. Competent measuring, designing, making and fitting would almost certainly be needed. It will probably invalidate any warranties and certainly be incredibly expensive. No insurer will cover a boat thus modified.

 

[Tranona]

I like lots of strings to play with too and I'm going to beg you to remove the wheel from the features list. Under deck autopilots are doable on a lot of boats.

Are you sure about that with a tiller steered boat. Not sure many have room around the rudder stock to fit a quadrant or arm to take a ram, or the space to mount. None of the manufacturers market a below decks pilot specifically for tiller steered boats. Would be interested in seeing some examples of your "lots of boats" where it is possible.

Why should he remove the wheel from his list? That eliminates many of the obvious candidates for the time of boat and family sailing he is looking for, particularly if he wants a modern boat.

 

[Kelpie]

Well removing the 'must have a wheel' requirement doesn't equate to 'must have a tiller'.

 

[Seajet]

Re the Storm, I'm pretty sure I went on the first one at Earls Court; the boat I remember had the usual ' being on stage ' cockpit resulting from aft cabins, extremely small cockpit lockers - with a big locker under the foredeck for stuff like fenders I like to keep handier - and a very high galley.

These things may well have been sorted on production boats but worth checking if you look over one.

 

[dunedin]

Thanks guys. The Elan is lovely (and has the mainsheet in the right place!) but 20 to 30k does not equal 40 (sadly!) 30, or something advertised for just a bit more that will do a deal at 30 is where I need to be on this.

Go for a sail on a decent Elan 333 and you’ll be beg, borrowing or stealing the necessary budget, I suspect ;-)

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Are you sure about that with a tiller steered boat. Not sure many have room around the rudder stock to fit a quadrant or arm to take a ram, or the space to mount. None of the manufacturers market a below decks pilot specifically for tiller steered boats. Would be interested in seeing some examples of your "lots of boats" where it is possible.

Why should he remove the wheel from his list? That eliminates many of the obvious candidates for the time of boat and family sailing he is looking for, particularly if he wants a modern boat.

Re: doable autopilots - I deleted a lot of a fairly long answer and what's left does look a bit optimistic, so I'll edit my post.

I'm not getting into an argument about wheel vs. tiller with you. I prefer tillers, particularly on boats of the size being discussed here, and so a boat with a wheel on your list of obvious candidates wouldn't be on my list of obvious candidates.

 

[Iain C]

Jolly good, as I'm looking for advice not an argument. Bottom line is, some things I won't compromise on. If a 40 foot Bavaria came up for the same price as a 32 I'd walk away as it's too big. Even though a Contessa ticks many boxes, it's not big enough inside. Anything without an aft cabin is a non starter.

My absolute preference is a wheel for the reasons already described. However, if the "right" tiller steered boat happened to pop up and by the fact that it had fab electronics, new sails, a posh folding prop, a collection of spinnakers and it's name all over club trophies then obviously I'd look at that very seriously against a run of the mill BenJenBav that had none of those but had a wheel.

 

[Seajet]

anoccasionalyachtsman,

I can see your point.

I did my ymo with the sadly missed Solent School of Yachting, which was a serious outfit with very experienced skippers, it was not a ' get a suntan ' sort of place.

They had two Yamaha 33's - brilliant heavy weather boats with no-frills interiors - one had a tiller, one a wheel; they were converting the wheel one to tiller, as it gives a much more immediate feel without linkages, is more instinctive - no peering at rudder angle indicators - and more space in the cockpit.

 

[Iain C]

More space in the cockpit in a static situation perhaps, however the whole "can you move please as I need to tack" or "we're motoring astern, if I accidentally let go of the tiller you've got very sore legs" thing is a PITA.

I appreciate that on some boats where the tiller exits the rear of the cockpit coaming at waist height it's a bit easier, however my current tiller comes out of the cockpit floor about 3/4 of the way down and needs a big clear space to have room to sweep.

 

[flaming]

More space in the cockpit in a static situation perhaps, however the whole "can you move please as I need to tack" or "we're motoring astern, if I accidentally let go of the tiller you've got very sore legs" thing is a PITA.

I appreciate that on some boats where the tiller exits the rear of the cockpit coaming at waist height it's a bit easier, however my current tiller comes out of the cockpit floor about 3/4 of the way down and needs a big clear space to have room to sweep.

X302.... You know your competitive streak will be begging you to buy this boat!
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1994/X-Yachts-X-302-2659952/United-Kingdom#.Wcy9_mhSyUk

MG 335.
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/Northshore-MG-335-3106466/United-Kingdom#.Wcy-dmhSyUk

 

[flaming]

Also

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/Jeanneau-Sun-Fast-32-3005650/United-Kingdom#.WczAZ2hSyUk

 

[seumask]

I 've followed the OP's postings over the years and I cant help but feel that a boat that sails well is high on the priority list and one that could be raced might well be the thing, who doesn't want to go well in a cruising boat?
In a fairly similar situation myself over the years and I cant help but feel that a wheel is out of character! If I was in his shoes I'd want a good sea boat i.e. one that goes well to windward when its needed! with a safe aft cockpit and a decent autopilot for short handed sailing.
Sitting snugly up the front end of the cockpit in shelter of a reasonable spray hood going to windward in a F5 while the wheel steerers and racing types without a spray hood take buckets on the chin has always made me feel a little smug!

 

[Iain C]

Thanks for the comments Seumask! I think the major change in my outlook is the arrival of my son, so the outlook and tick box list will change. TBH any modern boat of around 32' should be faster than my Sabre...and let's face it whether I'm going downwind at 6 knots or 8 knots in a leadmine it's never going to compare with 18 knots in the 49er! So "living" space, particularly below, is key right now, and who knows when my son is older, and if he takes to sailing, he may say "Dad, let's ditch this caravan and get something a bit lairy". By which time I'll be saying "I'm old and I like caravans son".

Flaming, some great suggestions there...loving the "wheel or tiller" option!

 

[Seajet]

More space in the cockpit in a static situation perhaps, however the whole "can you move please as I need to tack" or "we're motoring astern, if I accidentally let go of the tiller you've got very sore legs" thing is a PITA.

I appreciate that on some boats where the tiller exits the rear of the cockpit coaming at waist height it's a bit easier, however my current tiller comes out of the cockpit floor about 3/4 of the way down and needs a big clear space to have room to sweep.

Very much depends on the cockpit layout, as you say.

On my 22 nobody gets in the way of the tiller; in a Centaur ( similar cockpit size ) the tiller is a total PITA as emerges from a post a third of the way from the aft end then sweeps the entire cockpit.

On the Yamaha 33 ( a boat which surprised me considering the maker, a real sailor's boat but don't look for aft cabins ) the sailing school used the tiller was the better option despite school crews of 5-6...

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

X302.... You know your competitive streak will be begging you to buy this boat!
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1994/X-Yachts-X-302-2659952/United-Kingdom#.Wcy9_mhSyUk

MG 335.
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/Northshore-MG-335-3106466/United-Kingdom#.Wcy-dmhSyUk

Can't believe I forgot the X. Great boat. I know the MG335 very well, another very good boat, but I didn't suggest it because it's a bit bigger than the original spec. Never sailed the Jeanneau but it has excellent form too.

 

[Tranona]

Re: doable autopilots - I deleted a lot of a fairly long answer and what's left does look a bit optimistic, so I'll edit my post.

I'm not getting into an argument about wheel vs. tiller with you. I prefer tillers, particularly on boats of the size being discussed here, and so a boat with a wheel on your list of obvious candidates wouldn't be on my list of obvious candidates.

It is not an argument - it is reflecting reality. And it is the OP who is buying the boat, not you, so your preferences (or mine) are irrelevant.

All I am doing is saying his choice is limited by insisting on a tiller - which in his original post he is NOT. One of the advantages of a wheel is the ability to fit a better type of autopilot. You are claiming this can be done with a tiller - but unwilling to provide evidence it seems. Whether that is important to the OP is for him to decide.

 

[michael_w]

X302.... You know your competitive streak will be begging you to buy this boat!
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1994/X-Yachts-X-302-2659952/United-Kingdom#.Wcy9_mhSyUk

MG 335.
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/Northshore-MG-335-3106466/United-Kingdom#.Wcy-dmhSyUk

Not an X-302. As an ex-owner I was surprised by the indifferent build quality. You're paying for Danish workers wages. Dreadful cockpit ergonomics, the head seacocks are so close together poo 'recycles'. Primitive electrics (fuses rather than breakers). Pounds worse than a Dragon, unless you've got lard on the rail. Table is only removable for racing if you take the mast out first. Not enough headroom for 6' to stand upright. Access to the engine dipstick needs eyes in your finger tips.

Oh, and the rudder started to split apart and X-Yachts UK couldn't care a damn.