Offshore life raft or Leisure

[rogerthebodger]

So you are going to get into the water, Turn the LR the right way up, get into the LR , all whilst carrying a survival suit under your arm? Not to mention salvaging the grab bag. Then put it on whilst puking up all over your mate. Somehow, I doubt that is going to happen, whilst being slung about in a LR & sitting in a puddle of water, which will almost certainly enter the suit before you.

If I had time I would don the servival sut before leaving the boat

Any way the advice I had is to step up into the LR.

It is always better to stay with the boat than to cast off in a LR as the boat is more visible

 

[Whaup367]

... a liferaft that was too large was more dangerous than one that was too small. They are designed with a 100% overload factor...

Is it 100%? Googling suggests 50% but I'm not confident of the sources...

 

[rogerthebodger]

On my Sea Survival course, it was stated very clearly that a liferaft that was too large was more dangerous than one that was too small. They are designed with a 100% overload factor, so a smaller one will carry more people - admittedly in some discomfort. But a larger one that is not filled to capacity may be unstable, and be rolled over by wind and wave. The weight of the people is a factor taken into account when designing liferafts, and they are designed to be filled to their capacity. I currently have a 6-man liferaft, which is the number of berths on my Moody 31. However, I rarely have that number of people aboard, so I will replace it with a 2 or 4-man one when I get round to it; even that is too large as I normally sail single-handed. At present, my sailing is such that I don't feel the urgent need for a liferaft.

Yes I agree with you but its about practicality and cost.

If you had a boat for 6 crew what size LR would have and if you only had 2 onboard what would you do with that LR (exchange it for a 2 man)

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Is it 100%? Googling suggests 50% but I'm not confident of the sources...

I admit I'm going on a recollection from the Sea Survival course, and that may not be reliable. But it's a substantial overload factor, whatever.

Yes I agree with you but its about practicality and cost.

If you had a boat for 6 crew what size LR would have and if you only had 2 onboard what would you do with that LR (exchange it for a 2 man)

My problem is that I normally sail one-up, but have capacity for 6 or more on a day sail. Even a 2-man liferaft is too much for my ordinary use, a 4-man might be suitable for when I am sailing with a full crew, but what if I'm day sailing with more than 6 (not much more, and in the latter case, I'd probably only be going out on a pleasant day for a short sail).
A minor complicating factor is that I have two small dogs!

 

[rogerthebodger]

I admit I'm going on a recollection from the Sea Survival course, and that may not be reliable. But it's a substantial overload factor, whatever.



My problem is that I normally sail one-up, but have capacity for 6 or more on a day sail. Even a 2-man liferaft is too much for my ordinary use, a 4-man might be suitable for when I am sailing with a full crew, but what if I'm day sailing with more than 6 (not much more, and in the latter case, I'd probably only be going out on a pleasant day for a short sail).
A minor complicating factor is that I have two small dogs!

You can have a fire onboard even on a pleasant day sail which is where you will need a LR urgently

 

[Daydream believer]

A minor complicating factor is that I have two small dogs!

Should you really be bothering with dogs, if the crew were in such a situation that they were in a life threatening situation? Not that a boat is a good place for a dog in the first place ( Thames barge excepted)

 

[Praxinoscope]

Should you really be bothering with dogs, if the crew were in such a situation that they were in a life threatening situation? Not that a boat is a good place for a dog in the first place ( Thames barge excepted)

If you are prepared to take a dog/cat on board with you then you should be expected to rescue them in the unfortunate event that you have to abandon ship.
I certainly couldn't leave my pet on a sinking boat.

 

[Wandering Star]

As I sail my 27 footer solo or with max of one additional crew I’ve modified my 12 man life raft to include 2 separate living areas with en-suite bathrooms but shared galley. There’s still plenty of room for the 3/4 sized snooker table too. You couldn’t achieve those benefits with a 4 man life raft.

 

[Praxinoscope]

As I sail my 27 footer solo or with max of one additional crew I’ve modified my 12 man life raft to include 2 separate living areas with en-suite bathrooms but shared galley. There’s still plenty of room for the 3/4 sized snooker table too. You couldn’t achieve those benefits with a 4 man life raft.

You forgot the Imax cinema with surround sound.

 

[rogerthebodger]

As I sail my 27 footer solo or with max of one additional crew I’ve modified my 12 man life raft to include 2 separate living areas with en-suite bathrooms but shared galley. There’s still plenty of room for the 3/4 sized snooker table too. You couldn’t achieve those benefits with a 4 man life raft.

An chance of a set of plans the I can scale down for my 6 man for just 2 up

 

[rogerthebodger]

You forgot the Imax cinema with surround sound.

That would be outside projected on the clouds so to act like a bat man calling sign.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

You can have a fire onboard even on a pleasant day sail which is where you will need a LR urgen

Should you really be bothering with dogs, if the crew were in such a situation that they were in a life threatening situation? Not that a boat is a good place for a dog in the first place ( Thames barge excepted)

Humans are aboard of their own volition and choice; pets aren't. There is a valid argument that I have a greater responsibility for their safety than for adults. Dogs are also part of the family; I wouldn't leave family behind without a good reason so why should I leave dogs behind? For those who only look at material things, leaving them behind entails costs of around £40 a day for kennels!

Actually, my two are so small that their weight isn't a consideration when sizing a liferaft - 6kg and 8kg!

 

[rogerthebodger]

Humans are aboard of their own volition and choice; pets aren't. There is a valid argument that I have a greater responsibility for their safety than for adults. Dogs are also part of the family; I wouldn't leave family behind without a good reason so why should I leave dogs behind? For those who only look at material things, leaving them behind entails costs of around £40 a day for kennels!

Actually, my two are so small that their weight isn't a consideration when sizing a liferaft - 6kg and 8kg!

As the skipper you are responsibility for all on board if you leave a human on board you could be guilty of culpable homicide but not if you leave pars on board.

I agree the emotional issue should also be considered but no legally

 

[Daydream believer]

It would be bad enough being in an enclosed space swimming in others vomit. But add the effluent & vomit from animals would not be desireable. The stress on the animal would not be so good either. How does one give it water? Are you going to give it the water from the pouches provided for the occupants? How do you prevent a dog's claws puncturing the fabric of the raft? How are you going to control a dog, when you have other duties. You can hardly take its dog basket & rug
How will the crew feel when confronted by someone's dog in a confined space when they are fearful for their own life; freezing cold, exhausted, in a confined space, gasping for air, trying to see out in case someone has seen them, bailing water, whilst some twat is cuddling a darned great dog, or expecting them to make way for it.

 

[johnalison]

I see no reason not to rescue a dog or dogs; unless their rescue puts humans at risk. Every year a good number of people lose their lives in trying to save dogs, usually from water. I believe that the sailor who died off Harwich after being struck by a dredger had gone below to retrieve a dog. It may have been his life, but his action seems indefensible to me.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

As the skipper you are responsibility for all on board if you leave a human on board you could be guilty of culpable homicide but not if you leave pars on board.

I agree the emotional issue should also be considered but no legally

And I would agree that human life comes first. But as I mostly sail single-handed, there's only me to consider.

A while ago someone criticised me for stating that I would not allow another person to go overboard to rescue a child. I pointed out that another person overboard meant two potential casualties, and that the person would be better employed assisting getting the boat into position for a rescue and then getting the casualty back aboard rather than getting into the water where cold would rapidly render them unable to help themself, never mind a child.

Our instinctive behaviour isn't always the most rational and effective behaviour.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It would be bad enough being in an enclosed space swimming in others vomit. But add the effluent & vomit from animals would not be desireable. The stress on the animal would not be so good either. How does one give it water? Are you going to give it the water from the pouches provided for the occupants? How do you prevent a dog's claws puncturing the fabric of the raft? How are you going to control a dog, when you have other duties. You can hardly take its dog basket & rug
How will the crew feel when confronted by someone's dog in a confined space when they are fearful for their own life; freezing cold, exhausted, in a confined space, gasping for air, trying to see out in case someone has seen them, bailing water, whilst some twat is cuddling a darned great dog, or expecting them to make way for it.

IMG_20230717_193618288.jpgThese are the "damn great dogs" in question

 

[dunedin]

I admit I'm going on a recollection from the Sea Survival course, and that may not be reliable. But it's a substantial overload factor, whatever.



My problem is that I normally sail one-up, but have capacity for 6 or more on a day sail. Even a 2-man liferaft is too much for my ordinary use, a 4-man might be suitable for when I am sailing with a full crew, but what if I'm day sailing with more than 6 (not much more, and in the latter case, I'd probably only be going out on a pleasant day for a short sail).
A minor complicating factor is that I have two small dogs!

For the day sails liferaft plus inflated dinghy is our approach - not least as the grand kids who make up the numbers love to play in the dinghy (as they are doing right now).
I changed from 6 man offshore to 4 man inshore spec, both for safety and reduced servicing costs

 

[Daydream believer]

IMG_20230717_193618288.jpgThese are the "damn great dogs" in question

Not everybody runs around with a field mouse on a bit of string & I was talking about dogs in general. I would never have a dog on a boat, & cerainly not a cat.

 

[pmagowan]

I do wonder if, for UK waters, a liferaft is not, almost always money spent poorly.
You only need one if you have to abandon ship so quickly that help can not arrive in time. I would suggest the reasons for this would be minimal such as
1)collision at sea
2) fire
3) rapidly sinking

Spend your money on preventing these three and having measures to alleviate. ie radar, ais for 1, automatic fire extinguisher, good alarms for 2, not sinking for 3.

Then keep a dinghy, a good VHF and an emergency alert device for the 1 in a million

exception for commercial, coded, or ocean crossing boats etc