Offshore life raft or Leisure

[BabaYaga]

Based on what data is available over the last 25 years for small yachts that have foundered where a life raft was or might have been deployed in UK waters (total numbers just in double figures) show 3 underlying causes. Extreme weather, collision and structural failure

Surprises me that fire is not among them. Certainly the main rationale for the LR on my boat.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I have carried a liferaft for most of my 50 years of cruising, but thankfully never had the need to use one.
I did see one of mine being serviced as I was interested to see what was really inside the canister, and also did the RYA survival at sea course so then found out what swine they can be when you are in the water and the b****y thing is upside down and then when you right it trying to get into it.
As I now really only do coastal sailing with the occasional trip across the Irish Sea I no longer carry an equivalent to SOLAS A, but have 'downgraded ' to a standard 9650-2 as I am counting that my VHF / GPS distress signal will be recorded along with my EPIRB signal with both or ether being responded to fairly quickly and wouldn't expect to spend more than a few hours in the liferaft before rescue.
So as others have said it depends a lot on where you intend to sail.

 

[WoodyP]

I hesitate to add to a thread where there are professional seamen, and the only time I have entered a liferaft is on the RYA sea safety course however I tend to support Refuelers view on size as this is what we were taught. The difference in a liferafts for Ocean and inshore is much to do with the kit carried, fishing lines extra rations etc.
I would not want a second rate liferaft crossing the Atlantic, but for local sailing less stringent requirements are adequate.

 

[WoodyP]

Also weight is an issue. If you are on your own or with one other a large liferaft is too much on a heaving deck, I would think.

 

[Rhylsailer99]

I will probably go for the leisure life raft, as I dont think I will be crossing oceans in a bilge keel boat. I am a little paranoid about my own safety, being once rescued from a mountain with a broken leg . I took up sailing as a safer hobby to climbing mountains.

 

[Martin_J]

Indeed... this chat veered away from talking about what type, to what size (and that wasn't the question)..

Offshore rafts, as you say are designed for sbdy who is likely nowhere near rescue.. they'll probably have insulated floors and a better weighted ladder etc..

The £250 you'll save could easily buy you an extra waterproof handheld VHF and an extra torch for the grab bag (and you'll still have the liferaft).

 

[Rhylsailer99]

Indeed... this chat veered away from talking about what type, to what size (and that wasn't the question)..

Offshore rafts, as you say are designed for sbdy who is likely nowhere near rescue.. they'll probably have insulated floors and a better weighted ladder etc..

The £250 you'll save could easily buy you an extra waterproof handheld VHF and an extra torch for the grab bag (and you'll still have the liferaft).

Or maybe be able to buy a PLB instead of the more expensive life raft.

 

[Daydream believer]

So if you have a sound boat, don't go out in extreme weather and keep away from big ships

If only

 

[harvey38]

I cruise a couple of miles offshore and cannot swim well, even less so with an inflated life jacket, I have just purchased a new life raft.

I don't care about probability or risk assessments, we have a responsibility to those who come cruising with us and expect us to take care of them if it goes tits up.

Better to have and not need than need and not have!

 

[MontyMariner]

For trips where you hardly loose sight of land, I would have my dinghy inflated on the deck. If you haven't got a PLB or EPIRB, spend your money there, also get an immersion suits, so if you need to decamp to the dinghy it will help to keep you warm, they are also handy for cold nights sat in the cockpit.

 

[Refueler]

The half inflated dinghy folded on deck is a compromise that can save you ... enough to help keep you afloat ... once in - grab pump and add more air.

 

[Daydream believer]

We are talking about small leisure craft not big ships. But let's agree to disagree.

I am afraid that you are wrong. Expert opinion has been out there for years that even with leisure LR's they need to be properly sized for the crew. An underloaded LR can become unstable, so buying one that is unnecessarily large is a mistake.

 

[Daydream believer]

A SunFast 3600 entered in the Fastnet race sank. I wonder if the crew used the life raft, or if rescue services got to them first?
Would be interesting to know why it sank, as one would have thought that it would have been designed for this sort of race .

 

[Iliade]

Surely, in our waters, cold is the big issue once you have made it into the raft? Wouldn't people in a well-filled raft be warmer?

 

[Daydream believer]

Surely, in our waters, cold is the big issue once you have made it into the raft? Wouldn't people in a well-filled raft be warmer?

Do you think that in soaking wet sailing clothes, with most puking up, you will be huddling together for warmth? How much warmth will you get through a set of Mustos, into another person wearing the same kit whilst sitting in a puddle of water yourself?

 

[rogerthebodger]

I do take refueler point about the number of people in a LR is important.

Ideally I should have 3 off 2 man LR but the cost would be too much

As the number of people allowed on my boat is defined by the number of life Jacket and the max number of people my LR can hols I went for a 6 man.

Yes if there is only 2 crew on board this can be an issue with stability. Its a comprise

As I sad I do have 2 north sea survival suites if need be and these should help with hypothermal if donned inside the LR

 

[johnalison]

We carried a liferaft for the last fifteen years or so that we commuted across the Channel and N Sea, but I don’t remember hearing of any leisure sailors being rescued from liferafts in these waters during this time. I dare say there have been one or two, but clearly abandoning ship must be an excessively rare event in summer. For myself, I was happy to follow current advice to have a raft that was no larger than necessary, and also chose an economy option (from many years ago) on the grounds that 6-12 hours was surely the longest we would need it for.

I would like to know how many liferafts have been used in UK water, other than by racers, not that I would discourage their use, but there are far greater actual risks, the greatest of which must be MOB.

 

[Daydream believer]

As I sad I do have 2 north sea survival suites if need be and these should help with hypothermal if donned inside the LR

So you are going to get into the water, Turn the LR the right way up, get into the LR , all whilst carrying a survival suit under your arm? Not to mention salvaging the grab bag. Then put it on whilst puking up all over your mate. Somehow, I doubt that is going to happen, whilst being slung about in a LR & sitting in a puddle of water, which will almost certainly enter the suit before you.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

rThis is what is specified by out safety authority

I agree with you but their view is you can call for help.

I much prefer to be self reliant and be able to save my self and all on board


L have been in a life raft and tin my view the bigger the better within reason.

I have a 6 man but normally only have 2 or 3 on board may be 4 max

also the more people on board the more supplied you need to lat longer before rescue

On my Sea Survival course, it was stated very clearly that a liferaft that was too large was more dangerous than one that was too small. They are designed with a 100% overload factor, so a smaller one will carry more people - admittedly in some discomfort. But a larger one that is not filled to capacity may be unstable, and be rolled over by wind and wave. The weight of the people is a factor taken into account when designing liferafts, and they are designed to be filled to their capacity. I currently have a 6-man liferaft, which is the number of berths on my Moody 31. However, I rarely have that number of people aboard, so I will replace it with a 2 or 4-man one when I get round to it; even that is too large as I normally sail single-handed. At present, my sailing is such that I don't feel the urgent need for a liferaft.

 

[Tranona]

Surprises me that fire is not among them. Certainly the main rationale for the LR on my boat.

A vastly over-rated danger on small boats at sea, although not unknown. I can think of 2 or 3 cases. The difficulty with getting reliable statistics is the lack of consistent reporting and my comments are based on MAIB reports plus to an extent following news reporting. What is noticeable is the decline in incidents that involve or might involve the use of liferafts by leisure craft over the last 10 years. This is probably due to better weather forecasting, better boats and aids such as AIS that keep small boats away from big ones. Improved communications and rescue services also play a big part in preventing problems from escalating. When you read reports of incidents it is clear that very few are sudden and singular but usually arise from a string of smaller incidents and getting help earlier on avoids disaster.