G
Guest
Guest
Re: over here Stewart!
Just bought a monkey bike - huge fun, even if it can only do 30mph...
Just bought a monkey bike - huge fun, even if it can only do 30mph...
Novice boater narrowing it down..
- Thread starter BarryD
- Start date
BarryD
New member
Thanks keep em coming..\'
Thank you so far, some interesting things coming to light / review:
Firstly don't buy a petrol boat - however no one has really qualified the depreciation cost on a £20K hull - I appreciate it's small beer to some of you but it's a lot of money to me. How much is it likely to go down by? It's a cheaper hull so the re-sale will be lower but I'm not wholly swayed away from them. Safety is a concern but there are a lot of other petrol engine owners out there and they don't seem to be cowering in their cockpits.
Secondly get something bigger. OK, training will remove the driving concern and make it easier to park (sorry moor). Mooring fees will go up if I exceed the 10M range, and I guess as it gets bigger and heavier fuel burn goes up as well. Also the step from the 30' feet boats seems to be about £10,000 per additional foot. That's a lot of commitment and personally (sorry Matt / Stewart) I see no difference between finance debt and paying cash if I shell out £60 - 70K (or more) then that is my liability. Sure it might be easier to re-sell it but if the market goes against me, then the risk is very high.
Thirdly - review the family commitments. Well her ladyship is the one that kicked this off having been on a friends boat of a similar class. Interestingly enough it broke down and had to be towed back to Portsmouth but she is still the one pushing for our own boat - don't get me wrong I'm keen as well and I'm the one spending the time on the web and buying the magazines (when is MBM out again?) however boating has always been a back burner wish for me, I've been river cruising (Broads, Thames etc..) and enjoyed it. The short person, well we will have to see how he copes - at nearly three everything is an adventure. He will probably want to drive - already sitting on my lap he drives my car down the driveway, his turns are slightly better than my wife manages to be honest.
I think I shall stay in the sub £25K class (looking very much like a Sunfury 26) for the moment, and remain a little envious of the newer, sleeker, larger toys, but it gives me something to aim towards! Also buying older has its benefits as I run it into the moorings and the fenders squeak and the hull gains another scar I shan't cry as much, and I won't feel such a pratt as I cock up the mooring for the 2nd time in a row.
Thanks one and all.
Barry D.
Thank you so far, some interesting things coming to light / review:
Firstly don't buy a petrol boat - however no one has really qualified the depreciation cost on a £20K hull - I appreciate it's small beer to some of you but it's a lot of money to me. How much is it likely to go down by? It's a cheaper hull so the re-sale will be lower but I'm not wholly swayed away from them. Safety is a concern but there are a lot of other petrol engine owners out there and they don't seem to be cowering in their cockpits.
Secondly get something bigger. OK, training will remove the driving concern and make it easier to park (sorry moor). Mooring fees will go up if I exceed the 10M range, and I guess as it gets bigger and heavier fuel burn goes up as well. Also the step from the 30' feet boats seems to be about £10,000 per additional foot. That's a lot of commitment and personally (sorry Matt / Stewart) I see no difference between finance debt and paying cash if I shell out £60 - 70K (or more) then that is my liability. Sure it might be easier to re-sell it but if the market goes against me, then the risk is very high.
Thirdly - review the family commitments. Well her ladyship is the one that kicked this off having been on a friends boat of a similar class. Interestingly enough it broke down and had to be towed back to Portsmouth but she is still the one pushing for our own boat - don't get me wrong I'm keen as well and I'm the one spending the time on the web and buying the magazines (when is MBM out again?) however boating has always been a back burner wish for me, I've been river cruising (Broads, Thames etc..) and enjoyed it. The short person, well we will have to see how he copes - at nearly three everything is an adventure. He will probably want to drive - already sitting on my lap he drives my car down the driveway, his turns are slightly better than my wife manages to be honest.
I think I shall stay in the sub £25K class (looking very much like a Sunfury 26) for the moment, and remain a little envious of the newer, sleeker, larger toys, but it gives me something to aim towards! Also buying older has its benefits as I run it into the moorings and the fenders squeak and the hull gains another scar I shan't cry as much, and I won't feel such a pratt as I cock up the mooring for the 2nd time in a row.
Thanks one and all.
Barry D.
BarryD
New member
Re: over here Stewart!
Bought a 50cc moped to go to the train station in the morning but I looked stupid on it. Her ladyship advised against using it as some car driver would probably take me out as as mercy killing. AND this weekend I had a go on a tuned 35hp ride-on lawnmower, now that is a lethal toy - talk about understeer...
Barry D.
Bought a 50cc moped to go to the train station in the morning but I looked stupid on it. Her ladyship advised against using it as some car driver would probably take me out as as mercy killing. AND this weekend I had a go on a tuned 35hp ride-on lawnmower, now that is a lethal toy - talk about understeer...
Barry D.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: seriously, Graham
Barry doesn't say he can't afford to spend lots on it. He says he'll "learn" on the little one.
It seems that many (inc Barry) think that driving the boat is the Main Thing as it is with a car or indeed a plane. However "Driving It" isn't the main thing with a powerboat. Loads more time is spent snoozing, sleeping, drinking sitting, eating, twiddling.
So of course, as you say, you don't leap at a hideously unaffordable. But I was told that, if buying "try and get a boat that is nicer than the house, especially if you keep it in 2hrs drive away, otherwise you won't go". The first season it was in the solent , we went lots, but many other boats obeyed the 3-year rule of use it (yr1), forget it(yr 2) and sellit (yr 3).
So I agree that "everyone has to start somewhere" but disagree that the "somewhere" can enjoyably be "anywhere". Frexample: Spain's nice innit? So why do all those people complain about their hotel, have a lousy holiday, don't go again? Cos they bought a too-cheap holiday, that's why. But as a student, we stayed in a spanish dump, and since student flat also a dump, I didn't care and had a good time. These days I need a decent room (and a ferret listening service) otherwise I simply won't have a good time, like those holiday complainers. I beleive the same will apply to Barry in a too-cheap boat.
Oh, and I wasn't twelve, but the t48 was the first boat we'd owned other than a dinghy, although we had rented boats beforehand. Good fun when people asked what we'd had before. "More money!"
Barry doesn't say he can't afford to spend lots on it. He says he'll "learn" on the little one.
It seems that many (inc Barry) think that driving the boat is the Main Thing as it is with a car or indeed a plane. However "Driving It" isn't the main thing with a powerboat. Loads more time is spent snoozing, sleeping, drinking sitting, eating, twiddling.
So of course, as you say, you don't leap at a hideously unaffordable. But I was told that, if buying "try and get a boat that is nicer than the house, especially if you keep it in 2hrs drive away, otherwise you won't go". The first season it was in the solent , we went lots, but many other boats obeyed the 3-year rule of use it (yr1), forget it(yr 2) and sellit (yr 3).
So I agree that "everyone has to start somewhere" but disagree that the "somewhere" can enjoyably be "anywhere". Frexample: Spain's nice innit? So why do all those people complain about their hotel, have a lousy holiday, don't go again? Cos they bought a too-cheap holiday, that's why. But as a student, we stayed in a spanish dump, and since student flat also a dump, I didn't care and had a good time. These days I need a decent room (and a ferret listening service) otherwise I simply won't have a good time, like those holiday complainers. I beleive the same will apply to Barry in a too-cheap boat.
Oh, and I wasn't twelve, but the t48 was the first boat we'd owned other than a dinghy, although we had rented boats beforehand. Good fun when people asked what we'd had before. "More money!"
G
Guest
Guest
Re: seriously, Graham
Can't find anything there to take issue with, but I started out in a tiny little boat (cost marginally more than my fake teak, as it happens) and traded up each time. Had a shed load of fun on all of them.
BUT. How clear can the guy make it? He has a fixed amount of dosh, won't get into finance, and does intend to buy a boat. You may personally choose to wait or finance in those circumstances. I would finance or buy a 'fixer-upper'. He wants a seaworthy boat now, so the question is, what's his best bet?
One that's been missed so far - is diesel power in a 15 yr old 26 footer realistic? I thought older diesels were heavy for their power output. Even the brand new Fletcher 26 with a Yamaha diesel got panned recently for being too expensive and slow.
Can't find anything there to take issue with, but I started out in a tiny little boat (cost marginally more than my fake teak, as it happens) and traded up each time. Had a shed load of fun on all of them.
BUT. How clear can the guy make it? He has a fixed amount of dosh, won't get into finance, and does intend to buy a boat. You may personally choose to wait or finance in those circumstances. I would finance or buy a 'fixer-upper'. He wants a seaworthy boat now, so the question is, what's his best bet?
One that's been missed so far - is diesel power in a 15 yr old 26 footer realistic? I thought older diesels were heavy for their power output. Even the brand new Fletcher 26 with a Yamaha diesel got panned recently for being too expensive and slow.
paulineb
Active member
Re: A wife\'s point of view
Hi Barry. I agree with your wife. Sleek is gorgeous but just as important is comfortable, roomy accommodation with plenty of space for frocks and shoes and stuff. And of course a bidet would be a luxurious finishing touch
Pauline B
Hi Barry. I agree with your wife. Sleek is gorgeous but just as important is comfortable, roomy accommodation with plenty of space for frocks and shoes and stuff. And of course a bidet would be a luxurious finishing touch
Pauline B
peterg
New member
Re: over here Stewart!
I've got a 1200 Suzuki Bandit and a 0-60 in 4.8secs Westfield - if it ain't fast it's probably my boat!
I've got a 1200 Suzuki Bandit and a 0-60 in 4.8secs Westfield - if it ain't fast it's probably my boat!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: QED Graham
Which is what you said at the start. A 20k diesel will be horrid, a petrol obviously nasty. There isn't a good technical response. It needs more cash. I wouldn't push this (or contribute) if someone started at your suggested 40k or up. Rent one, and save up, or share one.
10% depreciation is day one- cos the broker gets 8%. Otherwise it'll be a ramshackle fleapit, no bidet, no teak. My wife marched me back down the broker to cancel when I tried to buy a boat for £20k, and she gets very good deals indeed, with nice shoes that only cost 15 quid, I believe.
Which is what you said at the start. A 20k diesel will be horrid, a petrol obviously nasty. There isn't a good technical response. It needs more cash. I wouldn't push this (or contribute) if someone started at your suggested 40k or up. Rent one, and save up, or share one.
10% depreciation is day one- cos the broker gets 8%. Otherwise it'll be a ramshackle fleapit, no bidet, no teak. My wife marched me back down the broker to cancel when I tried to buy a boat for £20k, and she gets very good deals indeed, with nice shoes that only cost 15 quid, I believe.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: QED Graham
Why's petrol 'obviously nasty'? It may be obviously expensive, but that's all. A 20k twin diesel may well be nasty, since by definition it's cheap and old (or bodged and broken).
Where's your sense of instant gratification gone? If someone suggested to me on day one that I should spend twice what my house cost (at that time) on a boat, I'd have thought them mad.
The ability to derive pleasure from delayed action is one of the things that separates humans from chimps. So are you going to display restraint and save up sensibly, or splurge now and have some fun on the water? [hint: when did you last see a miserable chimp or a cheerful accountant?]
Why's petrol 'obviously nasty'? It may be obviously expensive, but that's all. A 20k twin diesel may well be nasty, since by definition it's cheap and old (or bodged and broken).
Where's your sense of instant gratification gone? If someone suggested to me on day one that I should spend twice what my house cost (at that time) on a boat, I'd have thought them mad.
The ability to derive pleasure from delayed action is one of the things that separates humans from chimps. So are you going to display restraint and save up sensibly, or splurge now and have some fun on the water? [hint: when did you last see a miserable chimp or a cheerful accountant?]
BarryD
New member
Re: QED Graham
Matt - I don't believe you ever tried to buy a boat for £20K. Pleasure of ownership is part of the fun of this hobby surely? OK for £20K I don't get the nice sleek modern (read expensive) lines, and certainly not diesels. But I do get a ten / twelve year old hull which I can beat up and down the coast when ever I want to. I can upgrade the electronics as I see fit, prehaps some TekDek if it looks like it could stand it. Loads of fun without the bigger commitment. AND I can walk away without thinking "well that was silly". Of course I could just buy a Porsche 944 S2 instead and go on a cruise, but I don't think I'd like that so much.
Barry D.
Matt - I don't believe you ever tried to buy a boat for £20K. Pleasure of ownership is part of the fun of this hobby surely? OK for £20K I don't get the nice sleek modern (read expensive) lines, and certainly not diesels. But I do get a ten / twelve year old hull which I can beat up and down the coast when ever I want to. I can upgrade the electronics as I see fit, prehaps some TekDek if it looks like it could stand it. Loads of fun without the bigger commitment. AND I can walk away without thinking "well that was silly". Of course I could just buy a Porsche 944 S2 instead and go on a cruise, but I don't think I'd like that so much.
Barry D.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: still on boats
No I can't tell the diffrence between a chimp and an accountant. Didn't mean obviously nasty, um meant unsafe, anyway he doesn't want it. As for your boats, fine. But wife (if any, scuse) didn't proscribe "sleek" nor were you trying to match your current boat. Rib's, day sailer, riverish, all no prob.
No I can't tell the diffrence between a chimp and an accountant. Didn't mean obviously nasty, um meant unsafe, anyway he doesn't want it. As for your boats, fine. But wife (if any, scuse) didn't proscribe "sleek" nor were you trying to match your current boat. Rib's, day sailer, riverish, all no prob.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: still on boats
ooh ooh ooh gimme banana that'll be £250 please
ooh ooh ooh gimme banana that'll be £250 please
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Guess what I do for a living
(NM)
(NM)
G
Guest
Guest
Re: can\'t be an accountant for a living
otherwise there'd be disbursements. And photocopying at 42 quid. So you must be a freelance chimpanzee, perhaps doing a short summer season in UK praps...which also explains why no VAT!
otherwise there'd be disbursements. And photocopying at 42 quid. So you must be a freelance chimpanzee, perhaps doing a short summer season in UK praps...which also explains why no VAT!
G
Guest
Guest
First question is what do you want to do in the boat?
If short hops, plenty of time at anchor, and then home, fuel costs will be 'orrible, but perhaps not overwhelmingly 'orrible.
If every time you do a 120m round trip you shovel £300+ in notes into the tank, it'll put you off quite quickly.
But remember, if you enjoy, you'll want to go further.
If only short trips petrols may be ok.
Sunfury, unless gas prices go up a lot (which following last week they probably will do) is probably fully depreciated.
BUT if the engines are old (and the 26 will be latest '89ish) then you could be in to BIG bills. A manifold and head job could cost you £4k; And do you spend that on old motors, or do you re-engine. Then of course you won't re-engine 'cos you'll be changing to diesel in 2 years when you want to go further.....and you won't get your money back.
So the second question is can you do any of the tinkering yourself? If not, it may make sense to cut your teeth on something newer, with a single (and perhaps an auxiliary).
There's the odd Sunfury around with twin 130 diesels or single 200 at around £30k. Will not be as zippy as petrol, but should keep the going longer, which is what it's all about.
If short hops, plenty of time at anchor, and then home, fuel costs will be 'orrible, but perhaps not overwhelmingly 'orrible.
If every time you do a 120m round trip you shovel £300+ in notes into the tank, it'll put you off quite quickly.
But remember, if you enjoy, you'll want to go further.
If only short trips petrols may be ok.
Sunfury, unless gas prices go up a lot (which following last week they probably will do) is probably fully depreciated.
BUT if the engines are old (and the 26 will be latest '89ish) then you could be in to BIG bills. A manifold and head job could cost you £4k; And do you spend that on old motors, or do you re-engine. Then of course you won't re-engine 'cos you'll be changing to diesel in 2 years when you want to go further.....and you won't get your money back.
So the second question is can you do any of the tinkering yourself? If not, it may make sense to cut your teeth on something newer, with a single (and perhaps an auxiliary).
There's the odd Sunfury around with twin 130 diesels or single 200 at around £30k. Will not be as zippy as petrol, but should keep the
going longer, which is what it's all about.
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Re: Thanks keep em coming..\'
Don't worry about making a prat of yourself when cocking up the mooring, just award yourself membership of the largest club afloat. We all cock it up and most of us on a regular basis.
Apart from the safety angle (you don't hear of many petrol engined boats going BANG but some do!) there is the reliability issue and salt water and electrics do not make good bedfellows which can then lead on to safety if you were to break down. You therefore IMHO need to make sure the engines are properly serviced and maintained, which although adding to the budget does give you peace of mind which leads to more enjoyable boating.
Don't worry about making a prat of yourself when cocking up the mooring, just award yourself membership of the largest club afloat. We all cock it up and most of us on a regular basis.
Apart from the safety angle (you don't hear of many petrol engined boats going BANG but some do!) there is the reliability issue and salt water and electrics do not make good bedfellows which can then lead on to safety if you were to break down. You therefore IMHO need to make sure the engines are properly serviced and maintained, which although adding to the budget does give you peace of mind which leads to more enjoyable boating.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: can\'t be an accountant for a living
No - I am. But not in public practice which explains my woeful ignorance of charges. Never been called a chimpanzee before - bean counter and the dreaded administrator.
No - I am. But not in public practice which explains my woeful ignorance of charges. Never been called a chimpanzee before - bean counter and the dreaded administrator.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: can\'t be an accountant for a living
S'only matts calling you a chimp, Ian. I think the idea was that Chimps and accountants are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Still. So, if matts gets the wrong end of the stick again, does he get to keep it?
S'only matts calling you a chimp, Ian. I think the idea was that Chimps and accountants are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Still. So, if matts gets the wrong end of the stick again, does he get to keep it?
jfm
Well-known member
Re: on the contrary....
I thought your estimate of charges was spot on. For about 15 minutes of time.
JFM
I thought your estimate of charges was spot on. For about 15 minutes of time.
JFM
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Are you a chimpanzee- Questionnaire
question 1 : Are you a chimpanzee?
Results
If you answered no to the above, then you probably aren't. You may well be an accountant. Sorry.
If you answered yes, check the question carefully, and try again.
If you smashed up the keyboard with the mouse and poured tea over the monitor, you possibly are a cimpanzee.
(adapted from R4 Sunday Format)
question 1 : Are you a chimpanzee?
Results
If you answered no to the above, then you probably aren't. You may well be an accountant. Sorry.
If you answered yes, check the question carefully, and try again.
If you smashed up the keyboard with the mouse and poured tea over the monitor, you possibly are a cimpanzee.
(adapted from R4 Sunday Format)