Novice boater narrowing it down..

[BarryD]

Well having had the chance to crawl around the web, read the reviews, visit craft, solicit opinion etc, I think I've narrowed it down to one of four hulls. My brief was to find a suitable craft for a novice (but a good study) boater, be short person friendly, 4/6 berth and cruise around 20kts with a top speed around 25ish or higher. It must also be sea ready as I don't have the time / budget to commit to a fixer-upper. Due to recent events my budget band has shifted downwards (!). So I set a maximum of £24K. Allowing survey and year one mooring fees of about £3,500 on top.

The results are:

Fairline Sunfury 26
Fairline Mirage 29
Rinker 260
IT Cruiser Holiday 2838

All in a twin engine configuration for safety, probably petrol. I'm not to worried about the electronics (sea-onics?) as they will be replaced and upgraded over the next six months. I'd like davits but again this is 'cos I'm lazy. I shall hopefully look to sell/exhange the craft in two years time to upgrade.

Any chance I can have some feedback from people who use these boats, and of course anyone out there who thinks their craft would be a better bet. Or may consider with the benefit of wisdom that my choices are shall we say "naive"? Oh one other thing her ladyship has contributed the word "sleek" to the specification - therefore this natrually becomes my highest prioirty!

Barry D.

 

[Guest]

Re: over here Stewart!

Oh blimmineck. None of these are "sleek" now are they? Esp not with davits. Get some nice cheap finance and lash some cash at it.

 

[BarryD]

Re: over here Stewart!

Thanks Matt, however, sleek is in the eye of the beholder (besides she won't know until it is too late), as for finance. Don't want to finance a hobby my rules are finance your house and main car only. If it all goes pear shaped - I can walk (OK limp) away from £20K - can't do that if its got a finance charge on it. Of course if someone wanted to offer me a £100K boat for £40K then I might be tempted to change the rules <G>

Barry D.

 

[jfm]

Re: all facets of your net worth are fungible

OK then, borrow money secured on your house and if possible sale and leaseback the car, and use the money to buy a boat.

JFM

 

[BarryD]

Can we discuss boats please!

OY! the question is about boats not finance.

Barry D.

 

[Gludy]

I am a novice myself but having done some research, early on I avoided petrol engines because of the incredible expense of the fuel and the higher danger involved.
In any event, best of luck in your progress.

 

[Guest]

Re: resale tho?

"Sleek is in the eye of the beholder"? Sleek is only partly in the eye of the beholder. Jaguars (cars and animals) are sleek, old trucks aren't. Most flybridges aren't, and less so with davits. You surely ought to get her to have a look at what she defines as "sleek".

Else like some others on this BB you may find that it's "your" boat that "you" chose, so she'll go at first to be nice, but later she'll find something else and be "busy with this weekend" and will make references to "roughing it". Unless she's dead dead keen on boating in all forms, or it's in a hot climate, the boat has to be nicer in some way than home. For the non-boaty person, being in a "sleek" thing as opposed to non-sleek (usually) house is the primary attraction. And unlike blokes, who buy clothes cos theirs have worn out, most female clothing is bought not cos it's comfy, nor cos it's warm, but because it looks good. Or, in boat language "sleek". Ignore her command at your peril! And don't think that "it's too late" when you've bought it. Too late for you to change it - not too late for her to get disinterested.

A shaft-drive diesel is best for resale. Second choice an outdrive diesel. Last choice petrols, cos difficult to get petrol at some quaysides and ££ and more flammable.

I'd fancy my chances at getting out of a diesel-powered (financed) boat at around what I paid for it much more easily than any petrol-powered boat even though half the price. In fact, the very most liked boats (eg Turbo 36) cost about 70k not long ago, now selling for £90k plus.

Happy hunting tho!

 

[tico]

OK ive had a sunfury for the last 4 years & it's an excellent boat for 2. .... 4 only for weekends.
Excellent build quality and seakeeping... much better that the american 'bubble boats' (apologies to our transatlantic cousins)

BUT...... avoid petrols like the plague, not because of the flammability, but because of the running cost.
At 20 kts+ you will be burning around 12 galls /hr = £36/hr!!!

Thats why i've just taken out 2 petrols and replaced with diesels.

Best of luck.

 

[Chris_d]

I think some people on this board don't live in the mortal world of real incomes.
To answer your question, all the boats you mention are ok;

Farline Sunfury good boat, modern styling, easiest to resale.
Fairline Mirage, old styling, 70's interior, too many about so hard to sell, only thought of as a river boat now.
Rinker, dodgy american build, say no more.
CruisersIT 2857, good boat with modern layout but check for structural defects, there was a big scandel with these back in 1989 and some sunk due to hull failure, check for mods under toilet floor or stress cracks, this should be documented by Crusiers if its ok.

Your biggest problem though is that all the above are twin petrol, so at your cruising speed of 20knts you will be using about 10gph or £40+ per hour, are you ready for that. Most lightly used boats average 100hours a year, so thats £4000.
Unfortunately the writings on the wall for petrol boats, poor availability and high price make resale very difficult. If it must a petrol then get a single at least the costs will halve.
You could re-engine but you will never recoup your outlay, I will be looking to replace my single petrol boat with one that fits your brief in the near future, I have decided that the only solution is to look for older slower boats, but you will still need more money! 35-40K should do it

 

[Guest]

Re: Can we discuss boats please!

Sorry, you started us of with the budget and the word sleek. Anyway, there's a sunseeker 28 offshore at about 24k with twin diesels in the boats for sale section. Quite sleekish. The individual boat's history/condition will be more relevant than the model itself at this budget. Oops. Note how a 1980 diesel powered boat worth more than the same sized boat with petrols. My advice - no petrols. Her advice - sleek.

 

[BarryD]

Re: Can we discuss boats please!

Cheers Matt, I called the broker and he said it had just left on a lorry! But had an interesting chat anyway about the merits of Diesel over Petrol. Suffice to say I might have to find another scheckle or two (sell my convertible V8s I guess) and go diesel.

Barry D.

 

[stewart]

Re: over here Stewart!

Thanks Matt - the answer is....... don't do it. I started in May thinking you could get a nice small but useable boat for 60k. 3 months later and 2x+ the price and I ended up with something bigger and definitely much more fun - so it's part on finance but whats money for if not to spend. You're not going to lose much on depreciation if you buy well (and the Americans don't get too carried away this week) so the only real cost is a bit of interest. Trust me - you won't regret it! Just think, if you used £10k of your capital on the first two year's repayments you could finance £50k plus the remainder of your deposit - £65k and you've still only spent the same over the next 2 years that you planned to. And £65k starts to get into nice SLEEK boats - Sunseeker Tomahawk 37 perhaps?

OK, beauty may be in the eye of the beholder but only to a cartain extent. I like a forward facing radar arch but some prefer the opposite - all reasonable and down to personal preference. No problem. Some things are less subjective however (Ann Widdecome anyone?) and much as I hate to admit it, and I know how shallow it seems, but there is definitely pleasure to be had by having a nice looking boat that passers by look at, drool over and compliment you on. And then of course there's resale value. Something that's "right" will always sell and be popular and will date much less quickly.

I'm glad to see a positive input from someone's "other half" after some of the negative comments on here recently. Sleek is good, shows taste. I have no idea if any of your short list fall into this category - I don't know them, but I'm sure you (or rather your wife) will do on sight. All I would say is that before you rubbish the financing suggestion and decide, just go and see something (with partner) like a Tomahawk and see the difference. I know what the decision will be........

 

[Guest]

Re: Good! And in the light of your predicament...

...the forum has also orgainsed for the bank base rate to come down for you! Good eh?

Have you rented (chartered) boats yet? A bit? A day or so tuition could get you started enough for a week of renting a 30 ish footer in the med in October, where boating is easier - no tides and fewer worries if fall in warmer water. High wifey approval too.

 

[BarryD]

Re: over here Stewart!

Stewart, I'm not rubbishing finance options - however I prefer not to use them to fund a hobby. I'd certainly like to buy something at £70k+ and I can certainly afford the deposit and finance but choose not to. Everything else I have (house, car etc) is nice / top line and I guess the boat will be too - eventually, but at the moment boating is something I'm just getting into and YOU DON'T LEARN TO DRIVE IN A PORSCHE!

Maybe in two years time when I'm totally hooked I will be selling the "what ever" and looking to spend some serious money on a bigger toy. In the meantime I want to be in a position where I don't have to go every weekend to justify the purchase / finance cost, and have something that I can walk away from with out being desperate to sell, or being stuck with a marine mortgage / finance charges.

Hence small is wonderful, and sleek is a compromise on funding.

Barry D.

 

[Guest]

Re: over here Stewart!

Yes, everyone who points out diesel boats have a better resale value than petrol is quite correct. That is, of course, why they are more expensive. Given a fixed amount of budget, annd no desire to finance, can anyone answer the following:

a ten year old petrol powered boat will depreciate

a) more
b) less

in the next two years than a comparable diesel powered boat?

If the budget is fixed, do you:

a) buy a 10 year old petrol boat
b) buy a 15+ year old diesel boat

on the basis that diesel engines are well known for becoming more reliable with age.

Now stop confusing the lad, and answer his damned question about the boats...

 

[peterg]

narrowing it down..

Barry, if we assume you will be getting something "knocked off" for cash and therefore should be looking at craft up to £30k, you can find on the Ancasta site a diesel engined Sealine 240, a Larson San Marino 250 or a Skibsplast 700d (shaftdrive diesel) or if you want real 'character' as well, there is either a 1972 Windy 30 or a re-engined (in 1998) twin diesel 1970 Fjord 27.
If you don't mind their older styling there are also the Princess 32s available on the www.boats-for-sale.com site well within your budget.

 

[Guest]

Re: Good! And in the light of your predicament...

Well I was getting confused aswell over whether we were talking about boats or getting into debt. Perhaps this is the same for some people.
Anyway to give you some info., I have a singe diesel engined Sunfury. It is a boat with good sea keeping ability and is cheap to run and berth. There is plenty of room in the engine compartment which wouldn't be the case with a twin engine layout. The use of trim tabs helps it onto the plane when fully loaded. I would agree that with our family of 4 it is a bit of a squeeze for anything longer than a couple of days but for 2 to 3 people it is comfortable.

I

 

[Guest]

Re: seriously, Barry

I have thought of this a bit more. You obv have enuf readies to consider a reasonable boat purchase outright. I can recognise that you are wary of tipping loads (or finance) into a boat straight off.

You said "you don't learn to drive in a Porsche". But boats ain't like cars. There's a ready market for 2nd hand cars, much smaller for 2nds hand boats. If you buy a boat that you just know you'll dump in a year or two - there's obviously a financial cost. But there's also the chance that you +family won't like it at all. Especially if you are used to nice house and nice car. All cars have to be about the same, bit quicker, bit zoomier, bit leatherier etc else they don't fit on the road. The fun in a car is the amzing ability it has to transport you from here to there.

Not so with boats, where size and fixtures make a huge huge difference of the experience- anything bigger than a dinghy and the boat defines your surroundings much more than in a sit-down+shutup car. So some people can't stand it in the med, frexample cos its too hot, and not many marinas, and all twice as expensive as in UK. But some boats have aircon and generator and a tender, meaning that staying at anchor is very pleasant indeed, - better than in a marina and it's free. Same thing in the UK with shore power, TV, indoor space to read the paper, tender to goof around, more space to invite friends aboard and so on all make a massive difference.

I was a bit worried too about the speed thing. One boat "only" did 34 knots flat out, which sounds crap. But in fact 20 knots with wind in face feels fairly zippy, and the mega-torque diesels always give a "shove in the back" that will unbalance people just accelerating from 10-15 knots. We do less than 25 knots most of the time, mostly around 20.

the learning to drive bit is important. But boats ain't like cars. Even slight prang on a £100kcar and its several grand of bodywork. Prang same value plastic boat in the marina at sensible low speed (a knot or two) and often you can fender off, often there's the tiniest mark, or no mark at all. Could you praps rent a nic boat in the med first to try before you buy? I'd strongly recommend it, and avoid hassle of keeping boat thru winter. Bit of learning (in someone else's boat) first for say two days, and get ICC, an international qualification that shows you know which way to point it, which way to go when heading straight at another boat, basic stuff as in aeroplanes, but not PPL standard.

Unlike cars, almost all boats are for sale. Especially small ones. If you hate it, you'll sell, and if you like it, you'll sell. But t'would be a shame indeed if a small budget meant crappo boat and you/wife became totally disinterested. Another poss method of getting hold of a better boat is by boat sharing? But rent a fairly decent one first? Even hurling 10 grand is too much at first boat when you don't know if, on a boat hol, you/wife won't be uncontrollably sick. Or uncontrollably delerious, inwhich case justifies better first boat.

How very nosy and impertinent of me. But I do hope that you have a good time.

 

[Guest]

Re: seriously, matts

You make some good points, but surely everyone has to start somewhere? You're not going to tell us that you went out at the age of twelve, fresh from t'mill, and bought the T48, having put your best clogs down as a deposit, and the ferret as security?

You make up a list of minimum requirements (and price is in there, too), and buy the boat that matches them. A couple pf years' experience lets you refine those requirements. I.e. after a season, 'er indoors may decide that a bigger galley is more important than somewhere for half a dozen bikini-clad babes to sun themselves. (I'm still working out where you get them from, before anyone asks).

If you lose, say 10%, when you sell that first boat, surely it's better to lose 10% of 20k than 10% of 200k?

 

[stewart]

Re: over here Stewart!

Didn't learn to drive in a Porsche but recently learnt to ride a bike on a Fireblade - does that count?

All I wanted to say was make sure you're not put off long term by buying something that gives you so much less fun and satisfaction, it may not be a true reflection of the pleasure available if you get it right. Well, that and make sure it's sleek!