Not speaking.

[veshengro]

Not a technical question better posted in Practical Reader to Reader, just a simple explanation to the uneducated is sought. On the swinging mooring close to me is a Trimaran, about 30 foot long with a very high mast. I spent yesterday and last night aboard my boat and on the way out past the Tri it's owner hailed me. He's younger than my Granddaughter, he's also a Dinghy sailor and the Tri is his first 'big ' boat (as owner) He had hoped to be in the Solent by next week but told me his navigation system is on the blink. Apparently some bits will not work with other bits, he said the chart plotter and the auto pilot will not 'Talk to each other'. I've seen other posts about this problem but confess I don't' read them, as they are of limited interest to me, and I don't understand them anyway. But after yesterday's conversation the question is..If his system is somehow connected or linked, surely it must be possible to make the various bits work individually, or are some systems a complete unit in themselves.?

I suggested that he could sail anyway, just day hop if he didn't want to sail at night and watch the weather etc: I realised that my suggestion was not wise when I mentioned take care off places like Lands End with the Longships, but I think he got confused with sleek clinker built boats with square sails and full of hairy blokes with axes...
I also think he believes a Portland Plotter is a bloke from Weymouth planning to overthrow the Government.

Now before anyone shouts at me. I know it's possible to buy a Chart Plotter and also an Auto Pilot and set them up individually, but just so that I can understand what the Tri owner is saying, are there integrated systems on the market that are permanently linked. If I suggest to him using the bits separately and he has got a fully linked system he'll think I am even dafter than I am.

 

[Stingo]

Suggest to him that he joins this forum.

 

[veshengro]

Suggest to him that he joins this forum.

Good suggestion, I will on Wednesday ( next day out to the boat) if he's till there. I got the impression he is flapping a bit because of some berthing deadline somewhere.

 

[dunedin]

Many autopilots comprise multiple components with will have to “speak” to each other - will depend on the precise systems but can include steering ram; course computer; compass sensor (possibly with gyro); control head; display.
Clearly on simpler systems there can be less - even all in one unit such as a tiller pilot.

If the autopilot is not responding to the control head that is a major problem.

Generally any connection to a chart plotter / MFD is optional - generally used either to steer automatically to the next waypoint on a route and/or to use the MFD as an additional control point.
Personally I much prefer NOT to link the MFD to the plotter. I don’t need it to route me to the next waypoint, and indeed specifically do NOT want it to alter course to another waypoint. I want to do this manually - and takes about 2 seconds.

So generally an autopilot not speaking to an MFD is not a material issue. But it is possible it has been setup without a separate / dedicated control head and display (which I would consider bad practice) in which case it might be the only way to control the autopilot so a problem.

 

[veshengro]

" Generally any connection to a chart plotter / MFD is optional - "

But it is possible it has been setup without a separate / dedicated control head and display (which I would consider bad practice) in which case it might be the only way to control the autopilot so a problem.

Excellent, thank you. I got the impression that he knew a good deal about the equipment but it was the complexity of the set up that baffled him. I was reluctant to say anything but your reply may have provided an answer.
The Tri really is fitted for racing I believe, pretty sparse inside but instruments galore and a sail for every day of the week by the number of sail bags below.

 

[mjcoon]

Another potential link that can be useful is autopilot to wind sensor. That allows you to set the AP to steer to the wind rather than compass. But of course (ho, ho) it needs to be kept an eye on either way...

 

[Daydream believer]

I deliberately have my systems separated. I have had too many components fail over the years. My AIS is connected to my chart plotter because I need to see the ships on a screen. My wind, depth & speed need not be connected to it. I have a backup GPS connected to a Yeoman. But the Yeoman plotter can be written on with a felt tip pen in emergency & often is. The autopilot is independently powered, simply because I am on my 7Th version due to component parts failing. If I want steer to wind then I use my Aries. My compass is a Sestral grid steering one.

I would suggest that you tell your trimaran friend that if there is the slightest chance of any part of the system not integrating, then he would be better keeping them separate. That way he is not left totally without everything.
He only needs a compass, echo sounder & a backup GPS, along with his autopilot to get round the UK.
Of course he should have charts, whatever the system set up.

 

[veshengro]

He only needs a compass, echo sounder & a backup GPS, along with his autopilot to get round the UK.
Of course he should have charts, whatever the system set up.

Yes I entirely agree. I only went alongside in the dinghy as he hailed me as I rowed past. From the brief conversation I think he is possibly an inland ? Lake sailor, and a successful one at that listening to him, and this is his first venture with a bigger boat and the prospects of a coastal voyage. He was completely relying on the system which is currently installed for the voyage but obviously knows enough about the capabilities of it to realise that something is not working properly.
It was a complete guess on my part when I told him that perhaps the whole system was integrated, which it seems is quite possible.

He's not local, Black Country way by the accent and he only has the swinging mooring here temporarily, SW Wales, because the previous owner left it here prior to the sale. Hopefully I'll see him on Wednesday which is my next time aboard at my mooring which is close by his.

 

[SaltyC]

Zimmer frame incoming.

In theory my instruments 'talk' I can sail to wind or waypoint. I plot using paper and Yeoman and a CTS.

I am concerned that many of the new generation of IT savvy people depend totally on electronics without a basic understanding.

Last moth we set off arouind the Irish Sea, main plotterdidn't work - poor connection to PCB, we used Yeoman, and a compass course on the Autopilot, worked for 240 miles, no probs.

I am concerned that many younger people now depend on electronics and not understanding, electronics do fail, you then need to fall back on traditional nav, unfortunately the RYA following the proposed removal of paper charts by the Hydrogarphic office do not seem to appreciate the vulnerability of electronics on small boats.

Hard hat fitted, awaiting incoming.

 

[veshengro]

I don't know enough about electronics to make any worthwhile comment but I think in this case it is purely a combination of , a new boat, not having had the chance to really test the equipment and possibly a system very complex until fully understood.
Perhaps if he can separate the individual instruments the problem will be resolved.

 

[johnalison]

There are four possibilities.
1. His instruments can't be made to talk to each other and he has the skills to find this out
2. Ditto but he won't find out until someone with the skills checks it
3. His instruments can talk to each other and he has the skills to do this, given time
4. Ditto but he will need someone with the skills to make it work.
ie, if he can't make it work he will need help.

 

[Birdseye]

Now before anyone shouts at me. I know it's possible to buy a Chart Plotter and also an Auto Pilot and set them up individually, but just so that I can understand what the Tri owner is saying, are there integrated systems on the market that are permanently linked. If I suggest to him using the bits separately and he has got a fully linked system he'll think I am even dafter than I am.

Of course. But if they are to talk to each other then they need to speak the same language, and there are several alternatives. Not only that but they need to be listening out to hear what each other is saying.

Lets put it this way - how well could you communicate with a deaf man who only spoke swahili?

Took me ages to get a system composed of bits of Raymarine, bits of B&G and some old Simrad to talk to each other. I only persevered out of stubbornness. Besty answer is to buy a full set of kit at the same time and from just one maker. Or go all trad.

 

[Daydream believer]

Lets put it this way - how well could you communicate with a deaf man who only spoke swahili?

How would a deaf man know that he is speaking swahili if he cannot hear himself speak it?

 

[mjcoon]

How would a deaf man know that he is speaking swahili if he cannot hear himself speak it?

I think that is marginally too silly to be funny. Or perhaps it is my deafness that gives me that attitude...

 

[lustyd]

I am concerned that many of the new generation of IT savvy people depend totally on electronics without a basic understanding.

A lot of the older generation used to set off with charts and compass without a basic understanding. This is just humans being humans and electronics doesn’t change a thing. Both systems are safe and effective, but the sailor has to learn the one they intend to use. With electronics that’s a bit more involved.

 

[Pete7]

Out of curiosity, were is he starting from to reach the Solent?

 

[Tranona]

Out of curiosity, were is he starting from to reach the Solent?

See post#8. Big challenge for an inexperienced person in a complex new boat.

 

[Bouba]

Suggest to him that he joins this forum.

Isn’t meeting one confused old person enough for him

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I expect some of his instruments are Raymarine which are notorious for being unable to communicate with other makes particularly autopilots and plotters and achieve full functionality.

Other instruments are available.

 

[Tomaret]

I expect some of his instruments are Raymarine which are notorious for being unable to communicate with other makes particularly autopilots and plotters and achieve full functionality.

Other instruments are available.

Garmin (at least the older kit) and Raymarine were always a challenge.