Not falling Overboard

[thinwater]

That's a good point as I have gone for convenience over tidiness and have to step around doing dinghy, boarding plank, asymmetric and all fenders rolling about when going forward.

It's never been an issue but one day it the dark it could be - must finally get some basic little hooks to attach the bottom of the fenders to the guardrails so they dangle instead of rolling about

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that ANY deck cargo sucks. If things cannot all fit below, then I have too much stuff and something needs to go.

Clear decks, particularly forward. No junk.

 

[thinwater]

On the subject of human preventers - do not do this. I was once in a similar situation to the video, but instead of being thrown clear to windward I was thrown due aft, did a flip off the coach roof and ended up upside-down on my back on the cockpit sole, aft of the mainsheet traveller. This was not as fun as it sounds and could easily have resulted in serious injury to me or anyone else in the cockpit. It also took several minutes to extract me.

On the subject of guard wires - if they are lower than your centre of gravity then you are likely to go over the top if you fall against them hard. Crotch high is not sufficient to prevent this as your centre of gravity is around your navel, but the higher the better. In my mind the key purpose of guard wires is to provide an additional handhold as you move along the side-deck. The problem is that relatively slack wires are pretty bad for this.

On the subject of netting - my understanding was that most netting is intended to help with securing sails, and is not nearly strong enough to hold a person. Therefore adding netting for peace of mind is probably counterproductive. I would be happy to be proved wrong on this though.

I have found on racing yachts that toe-rails are surprisingly critical in staying on the boat as you spend more time on the foredeck or the leeward side-deck. Compare to cruising where in marginal conditions you would typically expect to move along the windward side and only as far as the mast.

Re. guard rails. Wearing gloves really helps. Additionally, don't pull to the side, pull up. This is better for the stanchions, presses your feet to the deck, and it doesn't matter if the wires are loose. Holding on like a railing is a lubber habit. Pull up.

Basically, it is impossible to keep wires tight because they run on a curve; any hard pull just bends the stanchions inwards. All you can do is minimize the slack.

Re. Weak netting, only if you use weak netting. In high-rise construction sites nets are a primary safety devise. Yes, the stuff the chandleries sell is for sail restraint and is weak. I've always though goal netting would work very well; strong and UV resistant.

 

[RupertW]

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that ANY deck cargo sucks. If things cannot all fit below, then I have too much stuff and something needs to go.

Clear decks, particularly forward. No junk.

I started that way then slowly changed as I realised the pointlessness of undoing and storing fenders ,of deflating a dinghy or putting a fancy sail down below. Everything should be ready to hand and in place for immediate deployment from its correct position.

But I realise from this thread I've been careless in how I've been keeping things on deck and I can do something about that rather than break my long experience of everything in the right place all the time.

Below is for food and cooking and sleeping and showering and I wouldn't like to unmake a bed just for a few days at sea.

But like all my habits this is subject to change as my experiences do.

 

[Roberto]

re netting, I remember having seen some made with webbing, juste found a picture of Big Spirit

 

[thinwater]

I started that way then slowly changed as I realised the pointlessness of undoing and storing fenders ,of deflating a dinghy or putting a fancy sail down below. Everything should be ready to hand and in place for immediate deployment from its correct position.

But I realise from this thread I've been careless in how I've been keeping things on deck and I can do something about that rather than break my long experience of everything in the right place all the time.

Below is for food and cooking and sleeping and showering and I wouldn't like to unmake a bed just for a few days at sea.

But like all my habits this is subject to change as my experiences do.

The dinghy is the only item I would leave on deck for any open water sail. There should be easy places to toss them below. Curse the builders who think a big V-berth is more important than a sail locker. Just silly.

 

[Brent Swain]

what do you mean by solid lifeline, a solid tube or rod rather than a wire? that sounds like a good idea

Yes solid tubing. Been using that for over 40 years no problems, Moodys and others have been going that route lately.

 

[NormanS]

Yes solid tubing. Been using that for over 40 years no problems, Moodys and others have been going that route lately.

Hollow tube is even better.:nonchalance:

 

[RupertW]

The dinghy is the only item I would leave on deck for any open water sail. There should be easy places to toss them below. Curse the builders who think a big V-berth is more important than a sail locker. Just silly.

No not at all. We have far more space and storage down below than we could possibly need. And although shallow there is nothing to put in the cockipit lockers apart from fuel, spare anchor, ropes and dinghy accesories and the life raft. I used to keep the asymmetric there all the time but now move it to the foredeck when we arrive and move the sail back there at the end of each trip.

It's that I now am sure about two things which I got wrong in my early decades of sailing. Firstly that the inside is our secomd home, not our shed or our garage, and secondly that the seamanlike place for all kit is where it will be used and immediately accessible. What I have got lazy about is how I arrange the deck, not whether I use I to keep everything in its right place.

 

[thinwater]

^^ I think you need to start using the term "convenient place" rather than right place in some cases. The right place depends on more factors.

 

[Brent Swain]

Notice in several cases that when they stuffed a wave, people flew forward. This is why I favor ending jacklines about 4 feet from the bow. With a 2 meter tether you can still reach the bow standing tall with the tether 4 feet behind you. then clip to the pulpit with the short arm, or something equivalent. But all being clipped with a long tether at the bow will do is keep you deeper in the bow wave.

It appears most, if not all these problems are due to grossly inadequate life lines, especially around the cockpit, w\here extra height would cause no inconveniences whatsoever.
Crossing Hecate Strait in 50 knots of wind felt very precarious in an open cockpit. I have since installed a flat roof over it, with overhead hand holds, which make it feel a lot more secure, with no chance of getting bucked out of it.

 

[Brent Swain]

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that ANY deck cargo sucks. If things cannot all fit below, then I have too much stuff and something needs to go.

Clear decks, particularly forward. No junk.

Not so easy to get a hard dingy, etc, below on my 31 footer.

 

[Brent Swain]

The climbing shoe parallel is interesting. As near as I can tell, unlike deck shoes, they don't get hard with age. The reason they are replaced is simply that they wear down. They also leave the most dramatic black heal marks you have ever seen! I say this because they do sell what they call approach shoes that use the same rubber, but with a sneaker upper and a sneaker wedge sole. They grip great, but your deck won't stay white, not at all. Perhaps if they could make the compound white there would be a market.

Varnish with salt is a nice trick. Sprinkle coarse salt on the last thick, wet coat, and then just wash the salt away when dry. It doesn't wear forever, but it is super easy to refinish.

I have found beach sand makes the best non skid, and doesn't wear down. The best way to keep it even is to sprinkle it on wet paint with a salt shaker, then roll another coat of paint over it . Subsequent coats smooth it out,until it is too smooth and you have to do it again. Commercially sold nonskid is OK for weekenders, but wears smooth too quickly for full time use.
I had a problem with the epoxy in my cockpit sole wearing thru too quickly , so I coated it with epoxy tar, then piled sand on top of that. After the epoxy set up, I removed the excess sand, and gave it another coat of epoxy ,then colour coat . Wearing thru that is like wearing thru concrete. No more wear problems.
In Tahiti in 73, a kid on a classic boat would say:
"Look ,non skid teak decks."
Then, he would take a run, and slide bare foot, the length of the wet teak decks. He said "It gets much worse, with a drop of oil or diesel on it, which makes it the slipperiest deck you can put on a boat".
Sand in paint is much better.
Teak decks are one of the biggest screwups you can do on a cruising boat. It is also a maintenance time bomb.

 

[Brent Swain]

Wider side decks also help a lot.
My first boat had 2 ft side decks, which I took for granted. On my next one ,I went for 18 inch side decks, a big mistake. When the boat was heeled 25 degrees and the top lifelines leaning well inboard , I had to go do forward by climbing precariously on the cabin top.
On my current boat, I gladly went back to 2 ft side decks, and have refused to go any narrower on any boats I have built, except for 26 footers , where there is no reasonable alternative . Clients have later thanked me for that. Cabin space gained by narrow side decks is not that useful anyway, as there is no head room out beyond the centreline .

 

[reginaldon]

Boat - 19' sloop, self furling foresail, no lifelines, side decks 1" to 7", good pushpit & pulpit, excellent deep reaching telescopic transom ladder, jackstay from forward central cleat to base of mast and then to front of cockpit.
Self - venerable with arthritic knees and now very averse to risk-taking.
Recommendations please.

 

[TLouth7]

At 19', can you reach the mast from inside the companionway hatch? Likewise can you work the foredeck (e.g. anchoring) from inside the forehatch? IIRC the Fairey Atalanta actually has the forehatch right at the bow for this very purpose.

I am guessing that the sidedecks are narrowest beside the cockpit, how is the climb out of the cockpit in order to move forward?

I would think that very good handholds would be the key safety feature (and non-slip decks), and perhaps a bum-shuffle along the coachroof?

 

[thinwater]

I have found beach sand makes the best non skid, and doesn't wear down. The best way to keep it even is to sprinkle it on wet paint with a salt shaker, then roll another coat of paint over it . Subsequent coats smooth it out,until it is too smooth and you have to do it again. Commercially sold nonskid is OK for weekenders, but wears smooth too quickly for full time use.
I had a problem with the epoxy in my cockpit sole wearing thru too quickly , so I coated it with epoxy tar, then piled sand on top of that. After the epoxy set up, I removed the excess sand, and gave it another coat of epoxy ,then colour coat . Wearing thru that is like wearing thru concrete. No more wear problems.
In Tahiti in 73, a kid on a classic boat would say:
"Look ,non skid teak decks."
Then, he would take a run, and slide bare foot, the length of the wet teak decks. He said "It gets much worse, with a drop of oil or diesel on it, which makes it the slipperiest deck you can put on a boat".
Sand in paint is much better.
Teak decks are one of the biggest screwups you can do on a cruising boat. It is also a maintenance time bomb.

I agree that sand in paint is very good. The reason I mentioned salt was primarily for cabin soles, places where people site (sand is rough on clothes), and less critical areas. Even someone who demands perfect varnish can bear something that is easily sanded off or refinished.

 

[thinwater]

Good toe rails are important on small boats, particularly without lifelines. You can go taller than the 1-2 inches we often see. Scoot rather than walk when heeling.

There is also no rule that says tethers must be 1 M and 2 M. Make them shorter; just double them around the jackline or railing.

 

[Brent Swain]

Boat - 19' sloop, self furling foresail, no lifelines, side decks 1" to 7", good pushpit & pulpit, excellent deep reaching telescopic transom ladder, jackstay from forward central cleat to base of mast and then to front of cockpit.
Self - venerable with arthritic knees and now very averse to risk-taking.
Recommendations please.

A 3/8th 8inch diameter polyester line, from alongside the cockpit ,to chest high on the shrouds ,then back down to the bow pulpit , helps a lot. Take it down in port.
At sea, I tow a 3/8th diameter ,knotted poly line, about 100 feet long, tied onto my tiller, held up by a shock cord , so it wont pull the helm over. If I fall overboard and grab it, it will overcome the shock cord and round the boat up. When I tack or gybe the boat, I also switch the line to the other side, so it will round the boat up, rather than bear off. Drop a piece of paper overboard ,and it takes a long time to reach the end of that line.
Be very careful not to get it in your prop.

 

[penberth3]

...At sea, I tow a 3/8th diameter ,knotted poly line, about 100 feet long, tied onto my tiller, held up by a shock cord , so it wont pull the helm over. If I fall overboard and grab it, it will overcome the shock cord and round the boat up...

Then what happens?

 

[lw395]

Then what happens?

Don't you know anything about shark fishing?