Non survey insurance?

[waynes world]

Well easy question really, are there any insurance companies left in the UK that dont ask for a survey for a GRP boat 50 years old. I can get TP with no survey but not FC.

 

[jamie N]

Try Yachtline. My 60 yr old wooden Folkboat is with them, it's never been surveyed and all they've required is for me to send them some photo's and an assurance that it's OK.

 

[waynes world]

Try Yachtline. My 60 yr old wooden Folkboat is with them, it's never been surveyed and all they've required is for me to send them some photo's and an assurance that it's OK.

thanks ill call them this week, i just found Alan Boswell group dont,or didnt require survey also.

 

[PCUK]

That's interesting as our boats are 60's and 70's and needing insurance this year. Do these companies ever pay out on a claim though?

 

[KevinV]

Mine (1984) is with GJW - fully comp, no survey (they did ask very specific questions about the condition)

 

[Tranona]

That's interesting as our boats are 60's and 70's and needing insurance this year. Do these companies ever pay out on a claim though?

Of course they will pay out if the claim is legitimate and covered by the policy. However suspect you will find that there is not a blanket "no survey" policy, but will assess each individual application and you may find the policy does not cover as much as others. so just shop around and find out what is on offer. All will provide a copy of the policy so that you can see what is on offer and make comparisons.

My 1970s boat is insured with GJW and previously with HKJ when I bought it. They required a survey because of the age and type and set conditions on what needed to be done before they would cover "in use" but then were prepared to increase the sum insured based on a schedule of work carried out and a broker's valuation.

 

[Aja]

Is the need for "no-survey" insurance down to the cost of the actual survey versus the value of the boat?

I don't understand why insurance companies require a survey for my boat but not necessarily for a neighbour?

 

[waynes world]

Is the need for "no-survey" insurance down to the cost of the actual survey versus the value of the boat?

I don't understand why insurance companies require a survey for my boat but not necessarily for a neighbour?

its an age thing only craft over 25 or 30 years need one. Not that it should matter for GRP boats. Also length for some companies if over 26 foot.

 

[mrangry]

Mine (1984) is with GJW - fully comp, no survey (they did ask very specific questions about the condition)

I too am with GJW and they require an out of water survey at 30 years old

 

[oldharry]

The snag with no survey Insurance is that the policy will almost invariably conatin a clause requireing the owner to 'take all reasonable steps to ensure the vessel is in seaworthy condition'. So define 'seaworthy condition' when it comes down to specfic details?.

In the event of a claim their surveyor will go over the hull with a fine toothcombe. Anything of consequence can invalidate the Insurance on the grounds the vessel is not seaworthy.

I know of a small motorsailer that was sunk at it's mooring after another boat broke its mooring in a gale and hit it. The Insurers found a signficant fault in the steering, which the Owner knew about, and was waiting for spares. The vessel was nevertheless deemed unseaworthy, therfore not insured.

My boat has never had a Survey,so I pay a boat builder to check it over periodically, so that I have an indpendent expert opinion. That is a fraction of the cost of a survey, and seems to me at least to be taking a big 'major step' to ensure it is and remains seaworthy. There is of course no comeback on the Boatbuilder if anything does go wrong as it is just an 'opinion'.

 

[Refueler]

Many Insurance Company's will accept a Boat Yards Letter saying the boat is maintained and appears seaworthy etc.

 

[steveeasy]

I think it’s probably fair to require a survey, after all they are liable in the event something fails. The premiums in reality are low and the consequences of hitting something or sinking are expensive. My insurance requires a survey every ten years. I tend to think that’s quite reasonable.
Steveeasy

 

[thinwater]

Remember that, as a rule, insurance does not cover problems due to age or poor maintenance. For example, if it leaks and sinks at the dock, that is not covered. The older the boat, and without a survey, the easier it is for the insurance company to say the loss was the result of poor condition. You start taking water during a storm; almost certainly poor maintenance (keel bolts, thru-hulls, windows, planking, rudder tube failure ....) and not an accident. At some point, I doubt insurance covers much.

 

[Refueler]

Remember that, as a rule, insurance does not cover problems due to age or poor maintenance. For example, if it leaks and sinks at the dock, that is not covered. The older the boat, and without a survey, the easier it is for the insurance company to say the loss was the result of poor condition. You start taking water during a storm; almost certainly poor maintenance (keel bolts, thru-hulls, windows, planking, rudder tube failure ....) and not an accident. At some point, I doubt insurance covers much.

In the UK - Marinas generally require 'Wreck Recovery' be covered in the insurance - even 3rd Party Cover has it ....

Wreck Recovery applies irrespective of cause.... unless another hits and causes the sinkage - then they are responsible.

 

[Keith 66]

Many Insurance Company's will accept a Boat Yards Letter saying the boat is maintained and appears seaworthy etc.

You will be lucky to get a Boatyard to put its name to a condition report these days. I used to do them on a fairly regular basis. Then was told by GJW that boatyard condition reports were only accepted up to 25ft or £10,000 in value.
I stopped doing them as it simply was not worth the risks involved.
Basically anyone doing such a condition report on a paid basis is doing all the cheap boats surveyors dont want.
But the boatbuilder will very likely not have the level of professional indemnity insurance required if things go wrong.

Some Class associations have negotiated agreements with insurance companies for no survey insurance, For example the Sabre Owners association has such an agreement with GJW, instead of a third party boatbuilder the owner provides his own condition report listing whats been replaced & when. It makes joining the association very good value!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Of course they will pay out if the claim is legitimate and covered by the policy. However suspect you will find that there is not a blanket "no survey" policy, but will assess each individual application and you may find the policy does not cover as much as others. so just shop around and find out what is on offer. All will provide a copy of the policy so that you can see what is on offer and make comparisons.

My 1970s boat is insured with GJW and previously with HKJ when I bought it. They required a survey because of the age and type and set conditions on what needed to be done before they would cover "in use" but then were prepared to increase the sum insured based on a schedule of work carried out and a broker's valuation.

I buy my insurance through a broker, and have never been asked for a survey.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I was asked to send the insurers pictures in a few areas, mainly sea cocks. They just asked me to double up on jubilee clips where possible. I then sent them revised pictures and that was fine.

 

[ylop]

I know of a small motorsailer that was sunk at it's mooring after another boat broke its mooring in a gale and hit it. The Insurers found a signficant fault in the steering, which the Owner knew about, and was waiting for spares. The vessel was nevertheless deemed unseaworthy, therfore not insured.

Wonder if that went to the ombudsman - as a general rule insurers have to link the fault to the loss. I’d have thought this was a 3rd party claim from the other vessel though?

 

[Refueler]

I know of a small motorsailer that was sunk at it's mooring after another boat broke its mooring in a gale and hit it. The Insurers found a signficant fault in the steering, which the Owner knew about, and was waiting for spares. The vessel was nevertheless deemed unseaworthy, therfore not insured.

I would be calling out the Insurers as 'Wreck Recovery' clause should prevail if ... second - the sinking as you say was due to another boat hitting it .. so why not claim against other boats insurance ... or if no insurance - then the owner.

Not being rude - but something doesn't add up there.

 

[Refueler]

Wonder if that went to the ombudsman - as a general rule insurers have to link the fault to the loss. I’d have thought this was a 3rd party claim from the other vessel though?

If that cannot be and the sunken boat is in a Marina berth - then Wreck Recover clause kicks in ..