Non boaty power saw question

[Wansworth]

As with any powered tools but especially with a circular bench saw concentrate on what your doing keep the work area clean,use a push stick and don’t operate when tired or under the influence ofdrink

 

[xyachtdave]

Hello, non-boaty question here but confident someone can kindly help.

I want to extend my repertoire of home DIY into fitting e.g. shelves, custom-made cupboards, coving and doorframe. I am a bit bewildered by table saws, skillsaws, mitre saws. If I was to start with one of the above, which would it be?

Thanks

For what you describe above it sounds as if you’ll be cutting a lot of sheet materials.

To start I’d get yourself a couple of fold up saw horses, a couple of 4x2’s and a sacrificial sheet of cheap 11 mm OSB to make a cutting table.

Then get a rail saw, Festool is the most common name but loads of choice now and if you’re planning on using MDF, get a dust extractor. Don’t be tempted into a M class extractor, it’s no more powerful than cheaper L class, it just has an alarm that sounds when it’s full, which is pretty obvious and you don’t need to spend another £250 for!

You’ll now be able to make dead straight cuts every time, perfectly and safely.

I’m mainly doing second fix carpentry now, the basic £200 light weight Dewalt chop saw does pretty much all I need and can be carried with one hand.

I’ve also got a DW708 which was when I bought it the largest double bevel, biggest cutting depth etc saw around, it’s heavy and awkward to lug around and overkill for most second fix applications.

Add a second fix nail gun and you’ll be good to start on your projects.

 

[Keith-i]

Don’t be tempted into a M class extractor, it’s no more powerful than cheaper L class, it just has an alarm that sounds when it’s full, which is pretty obvious and you don’t need to spend another £250 for!

Are you sure? I thought it was the degree of filtration too.

 

[xyachtdave]

Are you sure? I thought it was the degree of filtration too.

I’ve got both L and M class Festool extraction, I was so underwhelmed by the new M compared to the L so did a bit of online research and that’s what I read and learned from YouTube reviews. I do confess not to have read the spec from Festool, sorry!

I was originally going to get a 54volt Dewalt cordless extractor, the reviews for it were shocking. Basically crap extraction, dust everywhere, full bag alarm goes off all the time but because it is M rated and has a sticker on it you can let rip on site with it and comply with H&S.

I Bluetooth the start of the M rated Festool extractor with a remote fob on the hose by my rail saw and leave the L rated one plugged in to my chop saw to start automatically.

 

[Rappey]

I’ve also got a DW708 which was when I bought it the largest double bevel, biggest cutting depth etc saw around

The makita of the same era managed the same cutting depth yet used a 10" blade as a 12" was renown for blade deflection. It was also built in Japan and oused high end quality. Like yours it was heavy and cumbersome.
Now I use a battery sliding saw . The makita was nearly twice the price so opted for a dewalt.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You can do it all with handsaws - preferably good Japanese pull saws. Just think, no electricity usage, useful in these days of high energy prices and the exercise will keep you warm and I dare say fitter.

It's a sharp and brutal learning curve to work with hand tools but very rewarding if you manage to acquire the skills, if you don't you end up with a good supply of firewood.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

But your not going to match the finish when trying to trim 0.5mm off a large plank compared to a powered saw ?
You would be there all day cutting along the grain of a large hardwood plank, multiple times
But yes it could all be done by hand.

Not with a handsaw it couldn't but a good sharp plane (No7) it could if you had developed the skill which is not as easy as it sounds. It could be done with a decent track saw if you wished. If you needed to do it off the end ie a cross cut then a shooting board and a very sharp plane would be the way to go.

 

[Wansworth]

Learning how to sharpen tools a must before starting

 

[Fr J Hackett]

For what you describe above it sounds as if you’ll be cutting a lot of sheet materials.

To start I’d get yourself a couple of fold up saw horses, a couple of 4x2’s and a sacrificial sheet of cheap 11 mm OSB to make a cutting table.

Then get a rail saw, Festool is the most common name but loads of choice now and if you’re planning on using MDF, get a dust extractor. Don’t be tempted into a M class extractor, it’s no more powerful than cheaper L class, it just has an alarm that sounds when it’s full, which is pretty obvious and you don’t need to spend another £250 for!

You’ll now be able to make dead straight cuts every time, perfectly and safely.

I’m mainly doing second fix carpentry now, the basic £200 light weight Dewalt chop saw does pretty much all I need and can be carried with one hand.

I’ve also got a DW708 which was when I bought it the largest double bevel, biggest cutting depth etc saw around, it’s heavy and awkward to lug around and overkill for most second fix applications.

Add a second fix nail gun and you’ll be good to start on your projects.

Lot of sense there, the only thing I would add is if you are going to do a lot of work then substitute the OSB top for a decent MDF as large as you can store and make an MFT table top and buy a few dogs to fit. With a track saw and pair of tracks or rails it renders the table saw obsolete. You can also make standard angle cuts ( 90°, 45°, 60° and 30°) easily including compound cuts so unless you need to make bespoke angles you don't really need a compound mitre saw although a properly set up one in a bench with stops can make life easy.
It all depends on the depth of your pockets, initial skill level and the quality of work you want to do. No one has mentioned joints but there are two obvious power tool methods: Dominos or derivatives including biscuits (cheaper) or a router in a table. Both will end up being used a lot once you get used to them. Satisfactory joints can be made by hand the easiest being mortice and tenon and lap joints but it does require some skill but quickly mastered if you have the aptitude. A router with jigs and a table can produce excellent results though and it would be very high (above a table saw) on my list.
Power tools save time and can give just as good results as hand tools, if you go with power tools battery is the way to go, I wish I had done it as I have a frustrating mixture of corded and battery tools now.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Learning how to sharpen tools a must before starting

Absolutely, spot on blunt tools ruin finish.

 

[Rincewind]

I recently transformed from “proper” solid wood carpentry to building carcase plywood sheet construction.
I made a multi function table (MFT) with 300 holes in the top.
I got a Festool chordless plunge saw, and guide rails.
It is a massive but worthwhile enterprise as now all my edges are dead square, dead straight, all my cabinets are dead square and don‘t look diy at all.

 

[Graham376]

This discussion seems to be getting out of hand with makes like Festool (one of the best) and tools such as dominos being quoted, for someone just wanting to kit out with the basics to start off with. OK, so I have also mentioned cabinet saws, costing typically upwards of £1k but before that, I had a battered old site saw, a Sheppach with a sliding mitre fence which cost about £200 on ebay. Photo of part of it below, it was accurate enough and clean enough cut to joint this table straight off the saw, the centre section being 3 pieces, jointed with biscuits. The current model is here and I bet there are some used ones around at sensible prices - Scheppach TS310 240v 2200W 12" Site Table saw | 83mm max cut c/w 24z & 48z blade 4014915082040 | eBay

 

[Fr J Hackett]

To make small right angled and accurate cross cuts this is all you need.

 

[Wansworth]

Remember which side ofthe line to cut,some craftsmen score a líneas it’s more accurate

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Remember which side ofthe line to cut,some craftsmen score a líneas it’s more accurate

Yes I forgot to put a scribing knife ( a Stanley knife will do) and a useful tip is once you have scribed the line use a chisel to cut into it from the waste side to make a groove which the saw blade will then drop into and follow.

 

[Poignard]

To make small right angled and accurate cross cuts this is all you need.

Thanks pal!

When my wife asks what I might like for a Christmas present, instead of my usual "Oh I don't know!" I will say "I'll have a Facom DELA 1257.04 flanged square, please."

 

[Graham376]

Yes I forgot to put a scribing knife ( a Stanley knife will do) and a useful tip is once you have scribed the line use a chisel to cut into it from the waste side to make a groove which the saw blade will then drop into and follow.

Paul Sellers shows that technique. For those wanting to learn using hand tools, his videos are excellent - (1250) Paul Sellers - YouTube

 

[Wansworth]

A cutting block as shown in the picture is probably the first thing I ever made in wood under the guidance of myfather but for some reason the father son bonding ended with me being hit witha bit of two by one ?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Paul Sellers shows that technique. For those wanting to learn using hand tools, his videos are excellent - (1250) Paul Sellers - YouTube

I was taught it 60 years ago.

 

[Graham376]

I recently transformed from “proper” solid wood carpentry to building carcase plywood sheet construction.
I made a multi function table (MFT) with 300 holes in the top.
I got a Festool chordless plunge saw, and guide rails.
It is a massive but worthwhile enterprise as now all my edges are dead square, dead straight, all my cabinets are dead square and don‘t look diy at all.

I went for the Triton saw. The tracks have other uses as well -