Newbie - sterndrives or amateur root canal treatment?

[ari]

Just a random slight thread drift here but IPS's have become very popular and they add new opportunities for complexity AND leaks from the hull glands.. To me they make sterndrives look like a hammer and chisel by comparison..

It's interesting how many boaters go for another option that adds a lot more complexity and leak potential, in the name of features..

It's new boat buyers that dictate what gets fitted in new boats (obviously), and they typically have deeper pockets than used boat buyers, not to mention a comprehensive warranty.

So for them, considerations like how easy it is for them to park the boat, and that huge full beam master cabin that their wife favours, (both ably provided by IPS) are probably a higher priority than the potential higher bills for the third owner.

 

[Fire99]

It's new boat buyers that dictate what gets fitted in new boats (obviously), and they typically have deeper pockets than used boat buyers, not to mention a comprehensive warranty.

So for them, considerations like how easy it is for them to park the boat, and that huge full beam master cabin that their wife favours, (both ably provided by IPS) are probably a higher priority than the potential higher bills for the third owner.

Yeah I'd go with that. Will be interesting in 15-20 years how IPS boats fair on the used market. That's not whacking them with a stick, just will be interesting in how they stack up once they descend into more 'financially conscious' used hands..

 

[Hot Property]

But if you just wanted to pop down to Colwell bay for lunch at the hut then surely a boat like you have makes more sense still?

My point being, whilst outboards absolutely have their place (your own boat being a perfect example), and yes, Americans seem to love a big long rack of them on the transom of a big boat, they're not ideal for the sort of boat that the OP is talking about in the UK.

Too thirsty (considering UK dock prices for petrol), rather noisy when you're considering a rack of them (compared to a pair of diesels sunk deep into the hull) as they're pretty much in the cockpit with you (the Regal 42 mentioned above has three of them at 425hp each!), and they put a huge amount of weight very high up on the transom. When you get to the size and power needed to propel a 40ft cruiser then that kind of weight needs placing deep in the hull. (Shaft drive is best for weight distribution as it puts them forward as well, but at least sterndrives puts them forward of the transom and low down).

Horses for courses of course, but as you say yourself, if you actually want to go anywhere, rather than just to The Hut (which is the point of a 40ft cruiser for most people), then it's really got to be diesel in the UK.

We'll agree to disagree on a few points!

My mate has a new 53ft Squadron and mainly uses it as a second home on the solent.

I do more hours and trips beyond the Solent than he does, so I'm not entirely convinced that all 40 ft boats go far at all ...

 

[jointventureII]

Yeah I'd go with that. Will be interesting in 15-20 years how IPS boats fair on the used market. That's not whacking them with a stick, just will be interesting in how they stack up once they descend into more 'financially conscious' used hands..

My feeling is that IPS equipped boats will have a significantly shorter life - the further they go down the used market, the more likely they are to suffer big (expensive) issues. The uneconomical-to-repair point comes up quicker and as it's thru hull, it's not like they can just be swapped out for something else.

I've found sterndrives to be fine, on the whole, but there is no denying that shafts are easier.

 

[Refueler]

It's new boat buyers that dictate what gets fitted in new boats (obviously), and they typically have deeper pockets than used boat buyers, not to mention a comprehensive warranty.

So for them, considerations like how easy it is for them to park the boat, and that huge full beam master cabin that their wife favours, (both ably provided by IPS) are probably a higher priority than the potential higher bills for the third owner.

Sorry but I don't hold with design follows Buyers wishes ..... its like cars .. music ... designers THINK they know what buyers want and design accordingly. Buyers do not realise the slow changes until they are large changes ... but by then its too late and market has what it has.

Its part of the reason that older boats still have a market - even buyers who can afford new or near new - buying older .....

I do agree that SWMBO can often dictate based on the accommodation ... I know a number of guys who have had that and had to accept they didn't get what they really wanted ..

 

[ari]

We'll agree to disagree on a few points!

My mate has a new 53ft Squadron and mainly uses it as a second home on the solent.

I do more hours and trips beyond the Solent than he does, so I'm not entirely convinced that all 40 ft boats go far at all ...

Okay, so you feel that outboards on a 40 footer are an acceptable choice if you use the boat as a second home or don't go further than a few miles. So broadly, we completely agree...

 

[ari]

Sorry but I don't hold with design follows Buyers wishes ..... its like cars .. music ... designers THINK they know what buyers want and design accordingly. Buyers do not realise the slow changes until they are large changes ... but by then its too late and market has what it has.

Its part of the reason that older boats still have a market - even buyers who can afford new or near new - buying older .....

I do agree that SWMBO can often dictate based on the accommodation ... I know a number of guys who have had that and had to accept they didn't get what they really wanted ..

Well, we're 20 years in to IPS drive now, and I'd say we're seeing more boats with it, not less, so I guess that it is what buyers want, otherwise (like electric cars), we'd be seeing a drop off in demand as people try it and then decide to move away from it.

I'm not arguing for IPS by the way, I'm not a big fan of it personally, but I can understand why it is popular, and especially for new boat buyers who probably are far less concerned about maintaining them once a decade old.

As to how they fare on the used market, well they've been with us for 20 years now, incredibly, and I've not noticed any 'bargain' IPS boats compared to equivalent shaft drive boats.

 

[petem]

My feeling is that IPS equipped boats will have a significantly shorter life - the further they go down the used market, the more likely they are to suffer big (expensive) issues. The uneconomical-to-repair point comes up quicker and as it's thru hull, it's not like they can just be swapped out for something else.

I've found sterndrives to be fine, on the whole, but there is no denying that shafts are easier.

I agree. Sterndrives can be easily be re-built and all parts (for my DPE's for example) are available. Indeed, VP will still sell you a brand new DPE for around £10k and there are companies that will re-build old ones a a few £1k.

 

[Hot Property]

Okay, so you feel that outboards on a 40 footer are an acceptable choice if you use the boat as a second home or don't go further than a few miles. So broadly, we completely agree...

Yes we are in agreement!

Although we need to decide on how far "a few miles" is.....

 

[Fire99]

I agree. Sterndrives can be easily be re-built and all parts (for my DPE's for example) are available. Indeed, VP will still sell you a brand new DPE for around £10k and there are companies that will re-build old ones a a few £1k.

Yup, I agree. Sterndrives are obviously more 'technical' than shafts but they're still not rocket science. An outboard motor, especially one with a power trim/tilt system is more complicated than a shaft setup but they still have very strong popularity even when they are decades old..

My current boat is shaft but it's 50ft long so to me, with great big lugging truck engines and plenty of space, being a 'trawler' design, shafts make perfect sense.

When I had a boat in the mid 20's ft, Sterndrive was the obvious choice. All the propulsion tucked at the stern of the boat and maximum cabin space. And I have to say, I had my 280 leg surveyed and professionally serviced when I bought the boat and didn't have a single problem with mine for the few years I owned the boat.

 

[Refueler]

Forgive me for asking ... but I understand

Shaft Drive - I have 2 boats with inboard shaft drive engines.
Outboard - I have 2 boats with outboards + a shed with a number of O/bds
Sterndrive - I have one with the 250 Volvo leg
Z drive - a term I rarely hear now - which when I used to hear it meant a Sterndrive that also rotated as well as tilted

IPS ???? I'm not a Mobie person .. so what is that please ?

 

[julians]

Ips drive info below.

Volvo Penta IPS yacht propulsion system | Volvo Penta UK & Ireland

 

[Refueler]

Ips drive info below.

Volvo Penta IPS yacht propulsion system | Volvo Penta UK & Ireland

mmm interesting .....