New sail advice wanted

[glazell]

We are looking for new main & genoa for our Moody 35.
Were on the east coast and have been looking at quality sail makers such as Dolphin & Quantum (parker & kay). Also considered Hyde sails & Lucas sails who made the originals.
Our sailing is mainly cruising with the occasional race for a bit of fun.
Have decided to stick with a high quality cross cut Dacron for longevity instead of the racier laminates.
Was intending to go for a fully battened main, but after some research and speaking to sail makers have come to the conclusion that if you want to retain full control over the shape of the sail in varying conditions then this is not the way to go. Coupled with the fact that they cannot be depowered like a conventional sail I think I will be going with a full top batten & standard for the rest.
Your thoughts & advice please.

Graham.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Also talk to Jeckells.

And though sticking to Dacron, you might want to consider radial-cut, rather than cross-cut.

 

[vyv_cox]

My Hood Vektron (or Vectran, as mine say) main and genoa are now 10 years old. They are used extensively as we have lived aboard for half the year for the past six years and sail as much as possible in all conditions. Despite their age and usage they are in virtually as-new condition, no stretch or bagginess anywhere. They still perform superbly, as we have demonstrated to many other bigger and potentially faster, higher pointing yachts. Vectran is not Dacron but on the other hand it is not a flimsy laminate either.

When we bought them they were probably 20% more expensive than Dacron, but then their predecessors in Dacron were clapped out in three years and replaced at five.

 

[flaming]

This is the right time to be buying, the lofts are quiet at the moment, so tend to offer some keen pricing.

I know you said you'd decided on standard dacron, but I don't know anyone who's made the switch and would ever go back.
They really are much better.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had new sails 2 years ago for my Moody31.I had a fully battened main with a loose foot and a triradial laminate genoa.I have no problem controlling all aspects of the main and the shape in light airs is excellent.No bags in front of the batten pockets anymore.People say that you cannot depower as easily but letting off the kicker depowers OK.It is true you cannot scandelise the main but when was the last time you did that.With full battens I have found there is less flogging as well.The fully battened system works very well with the lazy jack type zip up bags.I went to the same sailmakers and settled on Hyde who did a good job and came to measure the boat and fit the sails.I would use them again.I know they make their sails in the Phillipines but at least they are honest about it.

 

[PeterGibbs]

We are looking for new main & genoa for our Moody 35.
Were on the east coast and have been looking at quality sail makers such as Dolphin & Quantum (parker & kay). Also considered Hyde sails & Lucas sails who made the originals.
Our sailing is mainly cruising with the occasional race for a bit of fun.
Have decided to stick with a high quality cross cut Dacron for longevity instead of the racier laminates.
Was intending to go for a fully battened main, but after some research and speaking to sail makers have come to the conclusion that if you want to retain full control over the shape of the sail in varying conditions then this is not the way to go. Coupled with the fact that they cannot be depowered like a conventional sail I think I will be going with a full top batten & standard for the rest.
Your thoughts & advice please.

Graham.

Have a chat with Suffolk Sails at Woodbridge - good for personal service and price too, for what you describe.

But have to add, I have just odered a main from Andrew Cross at Crusader, Poole, who are very good and competitive on price.

I have no other connection with either firm.

PWG

 

[FullCircle]

Have a chat with Suffolk Sails at Woodbridge - good for personal service and price too, for what you describe.

But have to add, I have just odered a main from Andrew Cross at Crusader, Poole, who are very good and competitive on price.

I have no other connection with either firm.

PWG

My recent experiences would lead me to concur Peter Gibbs recommendation. 5 sails from Crusader, no problem with any of them.

 

[25931]

Crusader made the sails for my previous boat and four years ago for Equinoxe. I find the full battens and stacking system great for single handing.
Jim

 

[Hermit]

Hello, I have just ordered a new main and have gone through a similar thought process to you regarding fully battened. After long discussions with a variey of sailmakers I have gone for a mix of the two! I am having the top 2 battens full (with cars). This will improve the sail shape but still allow some flexibiity for de-powering and 'fiddling' for some more boat speed. It will also ensure the sail doen't stack very high on the boom when lowered as the cars cannot go below the mast gate.

Haven't got it yet so all just in theory! However, might be worth a discussion with your sailmaker. I also used a local sailmaker who waswilling to discuss this at length AND come and measure the boat - worth a couple of quid more I think.

 

[doug748]

I have two mains one conventional and one fully battened. I tend to swap them season on season. I am not sure which is best, but if I had to choose I think I would pick the fully battened. It stows neatly and there is less flogging - a virtue when singlehanded. The only real drawback is the need to go pretty much head to wind when hoisting, you can still depower by hauling up the boom but of course this will not work dead down wind. If I would be willing to pay the premium on a new sail, I am not so sure?
Laminate sails have the racing edge, but for a cruising boat you would have to be either rich or daft.

 

[glazell]

Thanks for your feedback.
Waiting for Hood to get back to me with a quote in Vectran. Dolphin using Hoods Vectran quoted 2x the price of premium Dacron.
There seems to be a 50/50 split on fully battened or standard, guess this just comes down to personal preference. My own thoughts are that from a pure sailing point of view then a full top batten then tapered short battens with a loose foot is the way to go.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Why not try laminates???

I had laminate sails on my previous boat for 10 years, but our new boat came with Dacron, and by comparison with the laminate they are terrible, they stretch and bag so it’s hard to make the boat go well, especially to windward in a good breeze. So 2 years on I’ve just ordered a set of laminates! Once you’ve sailed a boat with a really good set of sails and a decent low drag prop, you’ll find it hard to go back, to Dacron and a fixed prop. It’ll significantly reduce the number of times you have to resort to the engine.
I’d also go for a fully battened main, it’s much easier to handle, doesn’t flog so much and I haven’t had any problems controlling the power.

 

[gardenshed]

Rather than dacron vs laminate, you should consider a hi-tech woven materials such as hydra net from Dimension Polyant (or at least discuss it and similar cloths with your chosen sailmaker). Conventional dacrons typically don't perfrom well when triradially cut, but hydranet (or equivalent) do. Google it or go to the Dimension Ployant website. You get most of the benefits of a laminate (cloth stiffness) plus the durability and soft handling of a woven cloth.

I understand the comment that you can't alter the shape of a fully battened main as much as you can with a conventional short battened one, but when it really counts (windy day and you want control), the shape is very stable and as the draft position doesn't change, so you have more control of the power in gusts.

Lack of control/shape in light winds? more than compensated for by the larger roach and with a loose foot, cunningham, sheet, kicker and traveller .... you have as much control as you need.

As the sail ages, you won't get that horrible crease running down the inner end of the battens, and as the sail has a lot more support, it will last a lot longer. Batten cars (ronstan do some that run in a standard mast track with no modification) are a worthwhile spend too.

Put your money into the best quality of cloth that you can and most of the sailmakers that you have on your list should do a good job.

 

[alan]

New Sails

I have always found Crusader to be VERY competitive on price and the sail quality is good in my opinion. I measure for mine myself and Crusader send me the sail(s) (Italy); have had no problems yet with fit; but I have a production Ben so they probably know the meausrements anyway but I am sure they will have done a Moody before as well.

Alan.

 

[sailorman]

I have always found Crusader to be VERY competitive on price and the sail quality is good in my opinion. I measure for mine myself and Crusader send me the sail(s) (Italy); have had no problems yet with fit; but I have a production Ben so they probably know the meausrements anyway but I am sure they will have done a Moody before as well.

Alan.

i had quotes from Crusader & Gowen the Gowen were much more expensive.
i chose Crusader & got what i paid for.
Nxt time i will have Gowen

 

[[10753]]

I have Jeckells fully Battened Main and have found it absolutely superb. I have no idea of the life expectancy of sails - Jeckells Main 15 years, Jeckells headsails 39 years.

 

[Robin]

i had quotes from Crusader & Gowen the Gowen were much more expensive.
i chose Crusader & got what i paid for.
Nxt time i will have Gowen

Then perhaps you were not comparing apples with apples? The price comparison should be between two quotes for exactly the same specification, by which I mean the detail cloth and cut specification not just 'a genoa for a Dooda 34'. Most sailmakers assume, not unreasonably, that if you are shopping around for quotes that the lowest price and not the highest spec wins the order.

Even 'name' lofts make cheapo sails, witness the 'Hood' sails seen on some new boats. These are built down to a price the boat builder has screwed them down to for bulk orders. Westerly for example used Ratsey sails, bullet proof and lasted years and years but had no shape after 6 months.

I'm a big fan of Crusader who are my local loft (no connection other than very satisfied customer) and have had many sails made by them over many years, including my current main and genoa. However I have never bought their basic low cost sails but always discussed with them what I expected or wanted and between us we evolved the best spec - for me. Our current sails are both made from Hydranet Spectra/Dyneema woven reinforced Dacron, both main and genoa are triradial cut, main is fully battened 3 slab reefs plus flattener, loose footed, roller genoa has foam luff. The extra spec over standard cost was around 25% I guess but can't remember but these sails are superb and will not only last years but keep their shape for years too. I too got what I paid for!

Crusader design, cut and make their sails in house unlike many these days who subcontract things out, even to having the complete sails made in outer Mongolia or the like.

Sorry if that sounds like an ad for Crusader but I can only speak as I find and I'm a VERY fussy customer.

 

[carrswood]

I too am looking to buy some new cruising sails this winter.
Crusader obviously do some good deals but on reading around it would seem their quality is questioned by some.

I have some excellent quotes from Quay, Kemp & Jeckells which are very close in price.

I just don’t know which to go for though?

 

[spscam]

I can highly recommend talking to your local sailmaker, try Suffolk Sails.
what other sailmakers call premium cloth is cheap.
Recommend contender cloth for high quality sail cloth (dacron or laminate). make sure triradials are made with radial cloth. Tri radial wil keep shape longer than cross cut but prob 20% more expensive.
it's good to come to the boat and measure etc.
Best advice he gave me was to meet the people who make your sails - if they enjoy their job the product will be top drawer.

 

[Genoa]

'Tis the season to buy sails then.

I have 3 quotes in front of me for a new Genoa:
Crusader Dacron & Dyneema
Sanders Vektran
UK Sails Passagemaker Laminate

but which one ???