New Greek "Duty" on Yachts Announced

[stranded]

As you say, the Marinas are more likely to be effective in at least changing the penalty for above 12m than any external pressure.

I think that must be right - the Greeks are unlikely to be particularly sympathetic at the moment to a bunch of foreigners who they hold largely responsible for the immigration mess and the bailout. I have quite a lot of dealings with the Greek government on the former and while working relationships with individual officials was (nearly) always friendly and constructive, the political atmosphere was at times best described as petulant. CA might get more traction working closely with Greek interests like the marinas association than directly, though they are of course right to utilise government connections. (I speak as a CA member, so I am entitled to an opinion!).

 

[sailaboutvic]

(I speak as a CA member, so I am entitled to an opinion!).

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I think that must be right - the Greeks are unlikely to be particularly sympathetic at the moment to a bunch of foreigners who they hold largely responsible for the immigration mess and the bailout. I have quite a lot of dealings with the Greek government on the former and while working relationships with individual officials was (nearly) always friendly and constructive, the political atmosphere was at times best described as petulant. CA might get more traction working closely with Greek interests like the marinas association than directly, though they are of course right to utilise government connections. (I speak as a CA member, so I am entitled to an opinion!).

Then why are the CA speaking for a lot more yacht/boat owners who are not it's members.
Let's hope that the Germans ,French,Dutch and other countries resist the introduction of this tax aimed at wealthy Greek Super yacht owners sailing under another countries flag as to avoid paying tax to their government.

I also doubt that any of this collected tax will improve services at all .

 

[stranded]

Then why are the CA speaking for a lot more yacht/boat owners who are not it's members.

I am confident that they will do what they think is best for their members. Do you think they should do otherwise and represent you instead?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I am confident that they will do what they think is best for their members. Do you think they should do otherwise and represent you instead?

No not at all. I will do what I think best for myself as will others with boats bigger than 12 metres.

 

[Tranona]

Then why are the CA speaking for a lot more yacht/boat owners who are not it's members.
Let's hope that the Germans ,French,Dutch and other countries resist the introduction of this tax aimed at wealthy Greek Super yacht owners sailing under another countries flag as to avoid paying tax to their government.

I also doubt that any of this collected tax will improve services at all .

If the legitimate government wants to impose a tax on boats located in its waters why should the nationality of the owner make any difference - assuming everybody is treated exactly the same?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If the legitimate government wants to impose a tax on boats located in its waters why should the nationality of the owner make any difference - assuming everybody is treated exactly the same?

Then why should a tin pot operation like the CA challenge a legitimate government ? or to presume to speak for others,there are probably 100,000 + boats in Greece that don't know that the CA exists .Trying to punch above their weight to justify its membership fees, leave it to the Germans and French to sort it out imo .
You know it makes sense for years the English bureaucrat has studied the laws and implemented them ,the same laws that the rest of southern Eropope has ignored .

 

[Tranona]

Then why should a tin pot operation like the CA challenge a legitimate government ? or to presume to speak for others,there are probably 100,000 + boats in Greece that don't know that the CA exists .Trying to punch above their weight to justify its membership fees, leave it to the Germans and French to sort it out imo .
You know it makes sense for years the English bureaucrat has studied the laws and implemented them ,the same laws that the rest of southern Eropope has ignored .

You really have got the wrong end of the stick. Anything the CA can do to make the tax easier and fairer has to be good. What influence do the 100000+ boat owners have individually. The CA has every right to engage with the Greek government on behalf of its members.

Of course the German and French equivalents are entitled to take an alternative approach and try to get the EU to declare it illegal. However, the chances of them succeeding are small as the tax does not seem to discriminate against residents of other EU states who keep their boats in Greek waters.

The Greek government has the power to impose this tax whether you like it or not and if you as a non citizen don't want to pay then you know the action you will have to take.

 

[charles_reed]

Then why are the CA speaking for a lot more yacht/boat owners who are not it's members.
Let's hope that the Germans ,French,Dutch and other countries resist the introduction of this tax aimed at wealthy Greek Super yacht owners sailing under another countries flag as to avoid paying tax to their government.

I also doubt that any of this collected tax will improve services at all .

Who has suggested this has anything to do with service-improvement?
It's sole purpose is to improve cash-collection, something at which successive Greek governments have been pathetically incompetent.
This attempted levy on leisure boaters was first attempted by the New Democracy government previous to the PASOK one that declared the Greek emergency - nothing new about it, we're talking about 9 years ago.
As to the Germans and French fighting it,in several conversations with members of their Greek cruising complement, they have a lofty contempt for all Greek governements and intend to avoid (by all possible means) having to pay.
As to the CA representing non-members, welcome to the free ride, all you whingers.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

The Greek government has the power to impose this tax whether you like it or not and if you as a non citizen don't want to pay then you know the action you will have to take.




But has it ,the legal challenges have stoped it before that is why I am against the CA talking to Greek government ministers as if it is going to happen, instead of finding if there is a legal way to prevent its implication.

And yes as I have said earlier in the thread I would have to measure carefully it implication on whether I remain in the country ,as an extra 150Euro a month would hurt my 400pw budget
considerably .

 

[charles_reed]

Staying or leaving will be your decision - I think you may find you're jumping from frying pan into fire, all government are intent on parting yotties from their cash.
You have altenatives available, apart from leaving - a smaller boat, a bigger budget...
Meanwhile don't knock the CA and their members' efforts to reduce the impact on ALL yotties - unless you're prepared to do something other than whinge.

 

[macd]

But has it ,the legal challenges have stoped it before that is why I am against the CA talking to Greek government ministers as if it is going to happen, instead of finding if there is a legal way to prevent its implication.

Legal challenges didn't stop the last one, although lobbying seems to have played a part, as it may do again. The one thrown out for legal reasons was patently discriminatory.

 

[Tony Cross]

Then why should a tin pot operation like the CA challenge a legitimate government ? or to presume to speak for others,there are probably 100,000 + boats in Greece that don't know that the CA exists .Trying to punch above their weight to justify its membership fees, leave it to the Germans and French to sort it out imo .
You know it makes sense for years the English bureaucrat has studied the laws and implemented them ,the same laws that the rest of southern Eropope has ignored .

Why not? All governments consult (at least all sensible ones do) and a government that doesn't listen to interested parties is a dictatorship.

The argument that the CA have no mandate 'to speak for others,there are probably 100,000 + boats in Greece that don't know that the CA exists' is perfectly true. Which is why the CA does not presume to speak for anyone except CA members. The CA membership REQUIRES the CA to intervene whenever it's member's cruising interests are affected. If the results that the CA achieves also then benefit all cruising sailors that's just icing on the cake. And by the way, you're welcome.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

As to the CA representing non-members, welcome to the free ride, all you whingers.



Charles what on earth are you talking about?No one is asking for a free ride and it is forum where people can post conflicting positions . So far the only bit of whinging I have read has come from you ,the other posters are positively challenging me as is their right to do so.
I have spent 21 wonderful years in Greece so far and I would like to remain,but that doesn't mean capitulating . It's probably a good idea to look for a new place before it's to late.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Why not? All governments consult (at least all sensible ones do) and a government that doesn't listen to interested parties is a dictatorship.

The argument that the CA have no mandate 'to speak for others,there are probably 100,000 + boats in Greece that don't know that the CA exists' is perfectly true. Which is why the CA does not presume to speak for anyone except CA members. The CA membership REQUIRES the CA to intervene whenever it's member's cruising interests are affected. If the results that the CA achieves also then benefit all cruising sailors that's just icing on the cake. And by the way, you're welcome.

Sorry a bit strong the throw away tin pot remark and I would have edited it if Tran had not quoted
it.
Keep up the good work
cheers bob

 

[charles_reed]

As to the CA representing non-members, welcome to the free ride, all you whingers.



Charles what on earth are you talking about?No one is asking for a free ride and it is forum where people can post conflicting positions . So far the only bit of whinging I have read has come from you ,the other posters are positively challenging me as is their right to do so.
I have spent 21 wonderful years in Greece so far and I would like to remain,but that doesn't mean capitulating . It's probably a good idea to look for a new place before it's to late.

"whinge complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way."

Are you noy complaining about the Greek government imposing the Tax?
Are you not complaining about the CA engaging with the Governement (even though I don't believe you're a member?
Are you not complaining about the CA presuming to represent your views?

What the hell are you doing except whingeing?

 

[Chris_Robb]

If I remember correctly the German version of the CA threatened to take the Greek government to court the last time this tax raised it head ,why are the CA in talks discussing its implementation rather than trying to stop it happening .

Have the CA taken a vote from its members asking if they want talks accepting this tax ,rather than rejecting it..?
I am not having a go at the CA just wanting to know .

We know that the German association did not even get an answer!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Then why are the CA speaking for a lot more yacht/boat owners who are not it's members.
Let's hope that the Germans ,French,Dutch and other countries resist the introduction of this tax aimed at wealthy Greek Super yacht owners sailing under another countries flag as to avoid paying tax to their government.

I also doubt that any of this collected tax will improve services at all .

The CA has been incontact with the other associations, but so far no responses.

For the record, the CA is vigorously opposing the level of the tax. Also the annual nature (Jan to Dec) and also the Month charge 1st to 31st. We are insisting on arrival date - that was agreed last time. We are also insisting on an easy to pay on line system - without the necessity of a Greek tax number. I suspect difficulty in paying will head up many peoples reasons for avoiding Greece,

Consultation - they Greeks allowed 3 days by the time we new about it for objections - no time for any inter group consultations. The bill will go for assent very soon - passed as a regulation - so if we have not got changes before then on the rates, we are all scuppered. The payment procedures will be dealt with out side parliament by exec decision.

We filled or objections yesterday - lets hope they get heard!

 

[Chris_Robb]

The Greek government has the power to impose this tax whether you like it or not and if you as a non citizen don't want to pay then you know the action you will have to take.

But has it ,the legal challenges have stoped it before that is why I am against the CA talking to Greek government ministers as if it is going to happen, instead of finding if there is a legal way to prevent its implication.

And yes as I have said earlier in the thread I would have to measure carefully it implication on whether I remain in the country ,as an extra 150Euro a month would hurt my 400pw budget
considerably .

Legal Challenge - unfortunately the Brits do not have a challenge, and we have researched this. The French and Germans may have as this is a duplicate tax. We will be considering a legal challenge, but not through the courts but through the EU commission. strangely the EU commission complaint desk enabled us to get the Temporary Import Duty rules for non EU boats last year reversed. So dont think that the CA does not do "nasty" - that was quite nasty.

It may be the word DUTY in the name which may scupper them - we are taking advice....... I would like to see it scuppered, but last time we were in the tent pissing out, and got very significant changes that has affected every single yachtsman in Greek water,

 

[Chris_Robb]

Sorry a bit strong the throw away tin pot remark and I would have edited it if Tran had not quoted
it.
Keep up the good work
cheers bob

We need someone to keep us on our toes!