New build Sanlorenzo SL96A 2024

[Canopy Locked]

I'd say those figures are impressive. We operate a 16m Cat workboat (appreciate difference in hull shape etc... but gives some idea!). Our boat has twin C18's @ 715HP, so quite a lot less than this superb vessel!

However our fuel burn is 192 LPH @ 14 kts (1500rpm), so for all the extra HP, and size / weight an extra 105 LPH seems very reasonable... Agree 26 kts is going to clean your tanks beautifully!

 

[jfm]

I for one think it would be very interesting to hear about your thoughts on the various alternatives and runner-ups. You pointed out that the level of customisation SL offer was key but I think it would be very interesting to also hear your takes on other pros/cons of interior layouts etc.

Please also make sure to tell us all about the toys you plan to have onboard (seabob, aquadart, seadoo etc.?)

Lots to say, so i need to summarise heavily...

Basic spec was "right on the limit for an owner driver", so about 95-98 feet.
Max LOA ~29m, to fit on the berth I want in Antibes. I don't want to be berthed in the location where the next size up (34m) berths are located.
Max beam 6.8m also to fit on the berth, though I recently bought the berth next door and could therefore have more than 6.8m beam, but at the time that was my limit.
Planing hull/RPH definitely
5 guest cabins all with ensuite shower rooms, minimum 2 crew cabins
Great galley.
Ultra high quality - more Rolls Royce than Mercedes
Need to be "content" with the brand/resale

As a rough summary of a LOT of debating/thinking/compromising, the scores on the doors went like this:

1. Ferretti 920 = nice boat but has 5 guest cabins and 4 bathrooms for some reason. They will build 5+5 but then one of the guest cabins becomes single bed only or bunks. Amazingly good price available when you get into real negotiations, and no meaningful credit risk. Ultimately a "no" because of the cabins, and tbh I don't love the slight panel van look of it.
2. Sunseeker - I prefer the 88 as a boat but it has no RPH and lots of compromises in 5 cabin guise. Sunseeker 95 ticks nearly all my boxes except it's unbelievably ugly imho. I don't really align with the Sunseeker brand approach either - I do not want the builder's name on my champagne glasses. Nice build quality especially the engine rooms imho. They will do a lot of customisation if you ask, much more than Princess, but tons less than Sanlorenzo. Quite good pricing when you see what you actually need to pay and some but not terrible credit risk imho.
3. Princess Y85 too small and Y95 was a potentially long wait, and as hull #1 has recently turned out I'm glad not to have it. Obviously I rejected X95 on ugliness, though I did go on board hull #1. Y95 is a nice boat (their whole range has decent build quality but not at "Italy standards"), massive fuel, but almost zero customisation and a "we know better than you" attitude. To be fair, they do genuinely think they know better; they're not just saying it. Also it's personal taste but their internal design isn't what I want (sofas made in their factory that look "RV built in" don't belong on this size of boat), not great engines choice (2000hp MAN) so running at higher rpm at any given speed. And at 95 feet their brand is very stretched/out of its depth - it belongs at 85 feet max imho. Decent amount of credit risk too imho, when I was executing a contract last summer, given that all of this is 8 not 7 figure territory.
4. Pearl 95 - I really like this boat - great overall design by Bill Dixon imho. Profile fussy with all those windows splodged everywhere, but that's the only negative on the design imho. Interior heavily dictated by Kelly Hoppen and - I got the impression - slightly non negotiable. She designs nice stuff but I don't fancy having to argue. I don't want to build in Taiwan (I've been there, but don't fancy regular bi-monthly visits) and the brand/resale isn't strong. Decent build quality at first look and quite a lot of customisation appetite. Very nice engine room and Bill D has done a great job in combining a flat floor garage with a decent engine room - he has done a great design here all round imho.
5. Sirena 88. I looked hard and there is plenty to love, especially the engine room and an easy 6 ensuite guest cabin layout, but the build quality is Turkish. Immense customisation avaialbe, and huge fuel tank. I think German Frers called it wrong when he made the aft hull extension (necessary to be under 24m LH) all above the waterline, leading to intolerable (imho) wave slap at anchor. Princess also used a stern extension on Y95 but they got the design right, imho. (This comes down to the "oxford comma" point in the other thread on SOF anchoring that I drifted a bit to a 24m discussion - it seems German Frers doesnt agree my reading of the rule and Princess do, which might be a mother tongue language issue). I also don't love the tender handling on Sirena 88.
6. All the other China/Taiwan boats - too beamy and I don't want to have to go there lots.
7. Van der Valk, probably their Pilot 26 stretched to 29m. Could be awesome but I don't have the time for a hull #1 full custom build. So, my fault not theirs.
8. Azimut 27 metri - very nice boat in many respects and great pricing when you get into negotiations but I just could not live with the Donald Duck looky likey bow and all of that scaffolding that they call a pulpit
9. Riva Argo - I totally love this boat and it was a contender up to the very end. Riva quality/feel/design/brand is just awesome. The build quality and engine room are awesome. They will customise plenty and I got to a great spec with them. Pricing is great when you get to the end of negotiations. No meaningful credit risk. If SL96A didn't exist I would definitely have bought this boat, with some important customisations, and loved it. It was a photo finish but the Riva lost to SL because of a too-small galley, a daft route for the food to get from galley to flybridge table, a day head on the lower deck, rather small swim platform, and an 8,700 litre fuel tank.
10. SL96A - when you walk on board you soon realise there is a whole different level of quality of fit out and cabinetry - superior (just) even to the Riva. That makes it unlike every other boat in this class, bar none, and the only one truly in Rolls Royce territory. Immense customisation opportunities/appetite, far above anything on this list apart from Van der Valk, and culturally ingrained into the company. Conservative but beautiful (imho) exterior styling, (even though I also like the non conservative Riva very much). Technical systems are as good as anything in this class can be, bar none. OK fuel tank (if not brilliant). By far the most expensive boat on this list, eek. By far the highest brand equity, on this list (except Riva, which is in the same league). As close as you will get to zero credit risk, such is the strength of the company. Warranty is easy - their factory is 120m from my home berth and I just drop it off for a month with a "jobs list" in its first winter and the folks who built it will lift it out and fix it (this is also true of Riva Argo)

Toys

1. Chase boat (I'll post details on that soon)
2. Tender probably Williams 435 - in identical livery mini-me to the Ribeye
3. Alternative tender is my old Novurania 430 with Yam70, that I did not sell with the Squadron 78. That is currently being re upholsters in the Ribeye's colour scheme
4. 2 seabobs F5S
5. Seadoo jetski with a complicated storage set up that I'll try to remember to describe later
6. Maybe the Laser sailboat (I still have that) or maybe an RS Aero instead.

 

[crazy4557]

What an amazing journey of the intricate build and minute details we'll get to experience vicariously through this thread. I remember the last boat thread with Match 2 and thats always been my highlight on this forum.
I'm really looking forward to watching this stunning boat's journey down the production line.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks sap_2k.

I think I'll do a bit more displacement speed running, but I still expect plenty of cruising at 18kts. Not really much interested in 23kts+

I think in litres per mile and the stats are below including 1 generator running. The numbers are big - this thing weighs 110 tonnes full. Certainly for long runs 13 knots looks highly attractive!

I asked about bigger fuel tanks but it was too difficult due to having to having to move the other structural tanks (water, grey and black); there are times in these projects when it's better to concede and not insist the builder does it. 10,350 litres feels ok to me, even though I would love 14,000, which is what Princess Y and X 95 offer, by the way, and sunseeker 95 has 12,000. The UK builders win hands down over the Italian builders, on fuel tank size .

Also, with this size of tank (and on my previous boat = 7,300 litres) ) I never applied the "20% reserve" principle That makes no sense to me on this sort of machine - 2000 litres is far too much to assume doesn't exist. 10% is more like it.

Speed		9​	11​	13​	14​	16​	19​	23​	26​
Litres/hour		84​	141​	211​	297​	411​	581​	663​	797​
Litres/ nm		9.3​	12.8​	16.2​	21.2​	25.7​	30.6​	28.8​	30.7​
Fuel capacity, prudent (actual tank is 10,350)	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​
Range		964​	702​	555​	424​	350​	294​	312​	294​

I'm sure you will find the "sweet spots" but the operation of the turbos will also determine the speeds.
Our MTUs only have two turbos per engine - yours will have three.
Ours are set up so that one turbo is always running and the second one tends to engage at about 1950 RPM
If we cruise at a speed a tad under 20 knots, the second stage comes in and out all the time.
In our case, it is better to go a little faster so that the second stage stays (well and truly) engaged.
If we leave ours in that difficult position, where that second stage turbo is going in and out, eventually (after a couple of hours) the turbo won't get up to speed and thenthe electronics complains with a warning alarm. The solution is to reboot the electronics which I don't like doing at sea.
I can't remember from my course how many stages the three turbo engines have.
I think it might be two stages like mine - if so it is easy to check.
Whilst running, you can watch the little hydraulic ram that drives the turbo.
If it is going in and out all the time, you need to either slow down or speed up.
Only experience will tell what speed/conditions that will be.
BTW, you can tell when a turbo cuts in - you can feel the power surge.

 

[swifty]

Great to have you back jfm, this is going to be fun just what the Forum needed.

 

[jointventureII]

Thanks JVII. Interesting.

First, AV equipment and fridge compressors will all be inverter driven, so I only need to worry about aircon and other mains-voltage electrical loads that need to run in port.

Yes I have seen/felt the 190v shorepower supplies that you mention(!)

Choice becomes to fit a VR, or live with the 190v situations and run a generator when you encounter them. The problem is that the big manufacturers like Atlas etc only offer VRs (I mean the ones you install onboard the boat rather than on the dock) in 1ph and about 30kva max, which doesn't work on my boat. Sunseeker now fit to their 95 foot (ish) model's Atlas's Autoshore 30 (you can see it at 19:30 of this video) which is a nice unit, and the Asea equivalent is similarly nice, but they only work on single phase boats, and 1ph is just an inferior way to build a boat of this size and I wouldn't have it. All the big motors on my boat will be 3ph including even the laundry equipment.

Next up, and necessary for a 3ph boat, is a big 3ph freq converter/VR unit, but these are massive lumps. The choice becomes to use genset when I encounter a berth that doesn't have what I need, or fit one of these 3ph units. The Atlas unit (called SHF) is a beautiful thing but 250kg and quite big (833mm W, 601 D, 1027 H so a volume of 2x washing machines, eek. The Asea equivalents are broadly the same. That's a lot of engine room to consume compared with the sunseeker fitted unit and I dont think this will work in SL96A with everything else that's going in the e/room, alas.

So at the moment I am headed for having no unit at all, and running generator when I encounter a "bad" berth. Not 100% happy about that of course, but it seems a necessary compromise. (I will have 3ph shorepower isolation transformer to stop electrolytic corrosion, but that's a whole nuther thing). If I did Greece I could just buy a dockside unit to carry in the garage.

Yeah you know the more I think about it, the more I'd probably just deal with the moments that the supply isn't up to it, and save the expense and hassle of a frequency converter. A Line Voltage Regulator (just a big iron ring, effectively) might be worth it but just make sure you've got a good galvanic isolation system in place as the 118 ate the anodes. On the Sunseeker 28 I was on for 5 years, it was useful but the ASEA did give problems at times.

The SL118 had nothing, as you've got a harbour gen that'll change things (we didn't have that on the 118, 75kw of generator started up every time the shorepower wasn't up to it).

I'm only up the road in Genoa and a fellow Jersey bean so just shout if you need anything in the area! Frequently down La Spezia way too, fluent in Italian.

 

[jfm]

Yeah you know the more I think about it, the more I'd probably just deal with the moments that the supply isn't up to it, and save the expense and hassle of a frequency converter. A Line Voltage Regulator (just a big iron ring, effectively) might be worth it but just make sure you've got a good galvanic isolation system in place as the 118 ate the anodes. On the Sunseeker 28 I was on for 5 years, it was useful but the ASEA did give problems at times.

The SL118 had nothing, as you've got a harbour gen that'll change things (we didn't have that on the 118, 75kw of generator started up every time the shorepower wasn't up to it).

I'm only up the road in Genoa and a fellow Jersey bean so just shout if you need anything in the area! Frequently down La Spezia way too, fluent in Italian.

Yes all makes sense. A frequency converter would be nice to have "just in case" and isn't expensive in this context so I'd install one without hesitation, if it weren't for the fact they are massive. SL96A doesn't have tons of spare engine room space bcz of garage. Compromises compromises. Line voltage regulator is nice but I can't get a 3ph one that isn't massive.
I managed 12 seasons in my last boats and came across 190-200v often enough, and the solution is run the generator when you need to cook and have airco, and other times just live with it and work the batteries hard. I don't have a harbour genset by the way: the base spec on this boat is a 45kva and a 30, but I have upgraded to 2x 45kva. Still, a 45 isn't not too much of a monster to run in harbour, occasionally when i have to.

I'm not officially a bean by the way. Moved to J in 2017 . Definitely grab a beer if we cross paths and thanks for the offer of help in Genoa/La Spezia region.

 

[henryf]

What an interesting read regarding your thought process. I’m not in your target size but felt myself in agreement with many of your points either having looked at larger boats on a whim or felt similar thoughts further down the range. I toyed with Sirena at one point for example but didn’t follow through and I’m pleased. We would have ended up with a big boat but not the right boat for us. Whilst you and Princess would never work on account of the relative lack of freedom afforded to customers I also found myself agreeing with you on their sweet spot size wise. Love the X80’s lifestyle potential but the X95 just wouldn’t be for me.

I would also have looked at Horizon but you made valid points re: Taiwanese build and after Sales. Like you, having a strong team on your doorstep is worth a massive tick in the box. New boat ownership should be enjoyable and easy - well as easy and seamless as a hand built floating thing with 3,417 moving parts can be.

In terms of furniture is the boat largely a blank space in the main public areas with freestanding furniture? At my size everything has to be fitted so you’re tied to the builder but presumably you have much more free reign?

 

[jfm]

I'm sure you will find the "sweet spots" but the operation of the turbos will also determine the speeds.
Our MTUs only have two turbos per engine - yours will have three.
Ours are set up so that one turbo is always running and the second one tends to engage at about 1950 RPM
If we cruise at a speed a tad under 20 knots, the second stage comes in and out all the time.
In our case, it is better to go a little faster so that the second stage stays (well and truly) engaged.
If we leave ours in that difficult position, where that second stage turbo is going in and out, eventually (after a couple of hours) the turbo won't get up to speed and thenthe electronics complains with a warning alarm. The solution is to reboot the electronics which I don't like doing at sea.
I can't remember from my course how many stages the three turbo engines have.
I think it might be two stages like mine - if so it is easy to check.
Whilst running, you can watch the little hydraulic ram that drives the turbo.
If it is going in and out all the time, you need to either slow down or speed up.
Only experience will tell what speed/conditions that will be.
BTW, you can tell when a turbo cuts in - you can feel the power surge.

Thanks Hurricane. Really good info - much appreciated. I have not run a boat with MTU 2000 series before - I have run 4x Cat C32's in the last 12 years as you know (beautiful things!). I'll definitely learn this MTU turbo thing - you might have to come out with me to train me up . Would be nice to get an information display on which turbos are engaged.

 

[jfm]

In terms of furniture is the boat largely a blank space in the main public areas with freestanding furniture? At my size everything has to be fitted so you’re tied to the builder but presumably you have much more free reign?

Yes exactly. Blank space, and you can just choose sofas and everything else from the usual Italian suspects: Minotti, Natuzzi, Frag, B+B, whatever. Most of those sofa makers will build a slightly amended design (longer/shorter sofa) if you ask.

The furniture I've asked for is partly in line with the renders above though some things are changing. That's a standard Minotti "Connery" sofa, standard chaise long thing, and the two blue chairs are Frag Rivieras (which I'm un-speccing ). All catalogue stuff. The tables, coffee table, etc are all hand made by Sanlorenzo.

External furniture is the same - customer chooses. I have specced Coco Wolf , made in UK. Prefer it to the Italian stuff (eg Roda or Paola Lenti) that you see on most of these boats. There's tons of external furniture choice: Summit, Royal Botania, Valdenassi, and so on

 

[MapisM]

I think I'll do a bit more displacement speed running, but I still expect plenty of cruising at 18kts. Not really much interested in 23kts+

I'm sure cruising at D speed will be an absolute pleasure with a vessel like this, due to both sheer size/displacement and massive fin stabs.
To the point that I bet you will do (unless time constrained for whatever reason) even more of it than you are already expecting.

That said, for fast cruising, it looks like the boat is actually happier at 23 rather than 19kts.
Just look at L/Nm, which is a sort of litmus test of a proportionally lower engine load.
Besides, since the most efficient speed depends much more on the hull+weight rather than power available, I don't think the "sweet spot" should change meaningfully with higher power engines.
Lastly, even if your table doesn't show the rpm, I suspect that the "better avoided" speed that Hurricane mentioned (IF, and it's a big if, it will be applicable also to your boat) is more likely to be in the 16 to 19 kts ballpark, rather than 23.

What does the factory suggest as cruise speed? I'd be surprised if it were "only" 18/19kts...

 

[jfm]

Here's a bit of information on dashboards and nav gear, with some pictures.

total of 11 big touchscreens (not counting the tender or chaseboat )
a couple of smaller 7 inch touchscreens
everything digitally switched using Empirbus
2 radars
A very high spec Flir camera
Autopilot control with touch screen and joysticks in armrests
Kahlenberg horns
Electric fly by wire steering (that I'll make a separate post about sometime)

Sanlorenzo offer "bronze/silver/gold/diamond" standardised hardware levels but my spec will be beyond that mainly because of the unique set up in the pilothouse. They are happy to install Raymarine, Garmin or anything else sensible. I'm a big fan of Garmin - the functionality is outstanding in my view, and their support is great generally and particularly from the folks I have got to know at Garmin UK. Also the CEO of Garmin marine in Kansas is a good friend and has been a guest with his wife on my last boat, and is boat-crazy himself, and he is taking a strong interest in this project. He discussed it with Sanlorenzo on his last trip to their factory a month ago, so I've got the best support and (Garmin) guidance anyone could get on this.

The best part is going to be a curved array of 5 x 22inch Garmin 8422 screens in the pilot house. This is totally custom and they have not done this before. One 22inch screen is a big thing and splits in to up to 6 windows, so 5 an array should look pretty badass.

Pictures:

Picture below is what Sanlorenzo fit in the wheelhouse if you get "Diamond" spec = 4 Raymarine 16inch Axiom XL screens (or Garmins) Quite nice.

I wanted to get more screen area and really didn't like the centre of their normal array, where you can see those chunky metal legs, so these next 3 pictures below show renders of what they have agreed to install for me in the wheelhouse. Five Garmin 22 inchers I'm really looking forward to playing with this.

Next, the flybridge helm. First, below are 3 pictures of the standard fly helm. First one is "Diamond" with 3 screens, and next two are I think "Gold" or "Silver" with 2 screens

I don't have a proper render yet but my spec is to left-right invert the whole fly dashboard so the steering wheel is on the left, because I just prefer that. Plenty may disagree that - it's just a personal preference. There will be 3x Garmin 16 inch screens, properly flush mounted glass bridge style. Also I don't love the helm bench in the pictures above so will instead have 2 x Besenzoni seats diamond stitched with electric hi-lo and joystick in the armrest. I only have the line drawing and GA below:

Finally, Sanlorenzo include a luff track in the black aluminium frame round the top of the flybridge windscreen (you can see it in one of the pics above) which means there will be a removeable Isinglass screen like in the picture below. Not the most beautiful of things but will be useful in crummy weather or to act as a windbreak at anchor, and maybe to relieve wind buffeting on very long passages:

 

[henryf]

I have helm envy

That first rendering is straight off a commercial bridge….

 

[Elessar]

Ok. One last try at this. With all the tech and controls in the armrest. Dump the steering wheel!

 

[jfm]

I'm sure cruising at D speed will be an absolute pleasure with a vessel like this, due to both sheer size/displacement and massive fin stabs.
To the point that I bet you will do (unless time constrained for whatever reason) even more of it than you are already expecting.

That said, for fast cruising, it looks like the boat is actually happier at 23 rather than 19kts.
Just look at L/Nm, which is a sort of litmus test of a proportionally lower engine load.
Besides, since the most efficient speed depends much more on the hull+weight rather than power available, I don't think the "sweet spot" should change meaningfully with higher power engines.
Lastly, even if your table doesn't show the rpm, I suspect that the "better avoided" speed that Hurricane mentioned (IF, and it's a big if, it will be applicable also to your boat) is more likely to be in the 16 to 19 kts ballpark, rather than 23.

What does the factory suggest as cruise speed? I'd be surprised if it were "only" 18/19kts...

Hi P
Table is below with RPM.

BTW, this forum handles tables very well - these tables I'm posting are from highlighting cells in Excel, then simple copy/paste. No formatting done by me.

I'll have to experiment to apply Hurricane's science. If 1950 rpm is bad, I'll need to do 19 knots when fast cruising, or maybe 20 given that I will have coarser props than hull #1 from which this data comes. That's fine. Or if I want to stay firmly below the kick in point of the second stage turbo, then cruising at 14kt for economy should be fine. Or if I have 3 separate turbo stages, then I'll have to find out the menu of cruising RPMs. All feels like a first world problem.

RPM		1000​	1200​	1400​	1600​	1800​	2000​	2200​	2400​
Speed		9​	11​	13​	14​	16​	19​	23​	26​
Litres/hour		84​	141​	211​	297​	411​	581​	663​	797​
Litres nm		9.3​	12.8​	16.2​	21.2​	25.7​	30.6​	28.8​	30.7​
Fuel capacity, prudent (actual tank is 10,350)	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​	9000​
Range		964​	702​	555​	424​	350​	294​	312​	294​

 

[jfm]

Ok. One last try at this. With all the tech and controls in the armrest. Dump the steering wheel!

There's something comforting about a wheel, especially when letting others have a go, or when stand-up helming in pitchy seas. I will mainly joystick it but keep the wheels.

The steering is electric and the hub is a rotary encoder not a hydraulic pump. Using the centre screen just ahead of the wheel I can choose turns lock-to-lock and steering wheel resistance. I expect to select minimum turns LTL, so I won't have to spin the wheel for ages if using the wheel in close quarters manoeuvring.

I could easily add a third rotary encoder with a sort of "volume knob" on it, atop the dashboard or in the armrest, and steer by that when totally "manual steering".

 

[MapisM]

All feels like a first world problem.

Yeah, it feels like it because it is, I reckon!
Looking fwd to hearing your findings on how the triple turbos are working on MTU 2000 above 8 cylinders, because to my mind - surely much simpler and less educated compared to the Friedrichshafen boys - making them work in three sequential stages sounds like a solution to a non existing problem.

But I never investigated MTU 2000 series because... Ermm... I never considered boats big enough for them!
My guess is that one is meant for low(ish) rpm job, with the other two, split by cylinder bank, kicking in above that.
FWIW, their previous generation of engines (183 series, based on the same M-B block that MAN always used) had plain vanilla non-sequential turbos, albeit one for each bank.

PS: ref. the dashboards, WOW is the only thing that pops to mind.
Are you going to christen the boat as USS Enterprise?

 

[MapisM]

my spec is to left-right invert the whole fly dashboard so the steering wheel is on the left, because I just prefer that.
Plenty may disagree that - it's just a personal preference.

You're thinking to maneuver the boat from the cockpit while mooring stern-to, I suppose?
Because if and when you'd like to do that from the f/b, you might regret not having good visibility at least on one side, no matter how many cameras you've got. Other than that, I also prefer centered helm stations.

 

[Mr Googler]

Have you considered making the the screen arrangement appear seamless? Rather than 5 separate screens……it looks like one continuous screen (but is 5 separate screens obviously) I think I’ve seen that on a few aquaholic videos and it looked trick! Pretty sure it was just 3 screens though….not a JFM mega setup

 

[benjenbav]

Have you considered making the the screen arrangement appear seamless? Rather than 5 separate screens……it looks like one continuous screen (but is 5 separate screens obviously) I think I’ve seen that on a few aquaholic videos and it looked trick! Pretty sure it was just 3 screens though….not a JFM mega setup

I was thinking how annoying it would be to gaze at a speck or two of dust in the seams. I’m sure jfm is waaaay ahead and has this covered tho’