New boat, which Liferaft to buy

[nevis768]

I'm after a life raft, Oban based. 28 ft boat, usually 2 on board, sometimes only 1. Any recommendations?

 

[dunedin]

Where do you plan to stow it, in a locker or on deck - hence valise vs canister?

Smallest generally available are mostly 4 man (but you may find a 2 man if search) - we have a basic Seago, probably this one - Seago Sea Cruiser ISO9650-2 Liferaft | Force 4 Chandlery

Can’t comment on quality as you never know until used, but Seago dinghies and lifejackets seem on a par with equivalents

 

[nevis768]

Thanks for your reply Dunedin, it will be going in the aft cabin and so a valise will be best. I will check out the Seago.

 

[Stooriefit]

Nevis768,

I bought my current liferaft (4 man) from Ocean Safety at Greenock (01475 729075). I found Ian there very helpful prior to the purchase and I would recommned speaking to a specialist like him even if you don't ultimately buy one from them. I guess part of your problem is being in Oban. It might be worth a chat with the Alba sailing guys who i think run the Dunstaffnage Chandlers to see if they stock anything. The other issue you need to consider is the servicing requirement. My one is every 4 years and I'm lucky as I can easily take it into Ocean Safety at Greenock. I've seen it during the servicing processes so know what it would look like if I ever - God forbid - have to use it in anger. Dunstaffnage might offer a drop off point for servicing but only for a particular brand.

Another suggestion might be a chat with your friendly RNLI station. They are an incredibly useful source!

 

[nevis768]

Thanks for the suggestion. I pass Greenock all the time so will ring them. I'll probably move the boat to the Clyde next year anyway.

 

[bitbaltic]

I bought a lalizas compact life raft a couple of years ago on the premise that it’s there not for force of weather but for fire. We sail as a family mostly in benign conditions and don’t expect to abandon the boat for any other reason. It’s absolutely tiny stowed; I wouldn’t want to be in it in survival conditions but it fulfills our needs.

Lalizas Compact Liferaft - Leisure Raft | Force 4 Chandlery

 

[jamie N]

• Lalizas 4 person.
• Packed dimensions: 330mm x 410 mm x 150mm
• Weight: 9.1kg

Gosh, that's tiny!

 

[ashtead]

Weight is certainly key -we have a 4 person seago but stores when on board under sole in stern walkway nowadays if I was sailing cross channel etc I would lug it up to cockpit on our last boat and put in front of wheel binnacle. Canisters are fine if rail mounted but prone to damage from third party idiots .

 

[Tranona]

• Lalizas 4 person.
• Packed dimensions: 330mm x 410 mm x 150mm
• Weight: 9.1kg

Gosh, that's tiny!

That is because there is nothing to it1 it is not really a liferaft as in a survival capsule, but a super strong paddling pool with a canopy. As in post#6 might be useful in the event of fire in benign conditions, but given that such events are even more rare than "real" founderings (which are very rare!) one questions whether they have any value at all.

 

[jamie N]

That is because there is nothing to it1 it is not really a liferaft as in a survival capsule, but a super strong paddling pool with a canopy. As in post#6 might be useful in the event of fire in benign conditions, but given that such events are even more rare than "real" founderings (which are very rare!) one questions whether they have any value at all.

Yes, I quite agree, indeed the "paddling pool" comparison was exactly my thought too!. Has whether anyone considered individual 'proper' offshore survival suits as alternatives for 24 hours after an abandonment?

 

[nevis768]

I'll have a look at the Lalizas too, I'm mostly not too far from the coast, although some areas are remote enough

 

[Tranona]

I'll have a look at the Lalizas too, I'm mostly not too far from the coast, although some areas are remote enough

Begs the question - why do you think you need a liferaft at all?

 

[Stooriefit]

Back in September two people were rescued by the RNLI Oban lifeboat from their liferaft. The mayday boat (a fishing boat) sank near Lismore (about 10 miles from Oban). Not even remote by west coast of Scotland standards. Conditions were calm.

 

[Tranona]

Back in September two people were rescued by the RNLI Oban lifeboat from their liferaft. The mayday boat (a fishing boat) sank near Lismore (about 10 miles from Oban). Not even remote by west coast of Scotland standards. Conditions were calm.

Fishing boat rescues rarely correlate to yachts. Why did it sink? and would a yacht have had the same sort of issue?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Yachts can sink due to failure of skin fittings, our stern tube detached from hull and the only reason it did not leak disastrously is that the clearance to the prop was tiny.

My engine compartment has filled with water due to un noticed cooling water failure causing exhaust box and exhaust failure , so cooling water restart flooded everything and I have had cooling water pipe leaks due to vibration chaffing on two occasions where water pumped pointlessly into the engine room without any external sign. All mine were under engine and thats in 40 years so not frequent but if at night in bad weather any of these could have endangered the boat, though duplicate high capacity electric bilge pumps made it more amusing than serious in our circumstances.

Failures dont confine them selves to daylight in benign weather. A plastic paddling pool life raft is simply somewhere to die of hypothermia or seasickness.

And if you can readily get a heavy canister or valise from cabin to deployment at night in a rolling sea, well you are way stronger than I am, and I am sure my wife could not manage at all

 

[nevis768]

I rang Ocean safety at Greenock, indeed very helpful.

 

[Tranona]

Yachts can sink due to failure of skin fittings, our stern tube detached from hull and the only reason it did not leak disastrously is that the clearance to the prop was tiny.

My engine compartment has filled with water due to un noticed cooling water failure causing exhaust box and exhaust failure , so cooling water restart flooded everything and I have had cooling water pipe leaks due to vibration chaffing on two occasions where water pumped pointlessly into the engine room without any external sign. All mine were under engine and thats in 40 years so not frequent but if at night in bad weather any of these could have endangered the boat, though duplicate high capacity electric bilge pumps made it more amusing than serious in our circumstances.

Failures dont confine them selves to daylight in benign weather. A plastic paddling pool life raft is simply somewhere to die of hypothermia or seasickness.

And if you can readily get a heavy canister or valise from cabin to deployment at night in a rolling sea, well you are way stronger than I am, and I am sure my wife could not manage at all

All sorts of things CAN and DO happen but how many actually result in a situation where a liferaft is the only alternative? What evidence there is suggests that such events (28' yacht, in UK coastal waters having a catastrophic failure resulting in foundering) are extremely rare to the point of being almost unknown.

It is very different in the world of commercial fishing which was the point I was trying to make.

If you did get into the sort of situation you suggest then the Lalizas product would not be suitable as its own marketing material says. If you really do think you will ever need a liferaft, and there are many circumstances where having one on your boat would be wise then make sure it is a "proper" one

 

[bitbaltic]

That is because there is nothing to it1 it is not really a liferaft as in a survival capsule, but a super strong paddling pool with a canopy. As in post#6 might be useful in the event of fire in benign conditions, but given that such events are even more rare than "real" founderings (which are very rare!) one questions whether they have any value at all.

If you don’t take your boat out into conditions which might result in a foundering (Presently, with a young family, I don’t) then the relative risk of foundering reduces to zero- as I in fact said. There is then no case to weigh the usefulness of a raft which is substandard for those purposes against the risk of such a situation materialising (as I said and which exposes your false dichotomy). So, the only circumstances in which the raft is needed become calm weather close to the coast following a fire on the boat which could not be controlled. It’s quite a sufficient back-up for that. I wouldn’t ever argue it’s a (weather) survival raft and want to make it quite clear I didn’t buy it in any way thinking of those purposes. The wider point being that there are reasons to buy a life raft wholly exclusive of ideas of survival conditions and the choice should not always be framed in those terms.

 

[bitbaltic]

Yachts can sink due to failure of skin fittings, our stern tube detached from hull and the only reason it did not leak disastrously is that the clearance to the prop was tiny.

My engine compartment has filled with water due to un noticed cooling water failure causing exhaust box and exhaust failure , so cooling water restart flooded everything and I have had cooling water pipe leaks due to vibration chaffing on two occasions where water pumped pointlessly into the engine room without any external sign. All mine were under engine and thats in 40 years so not frequent but if at night in bad weather any of these could have endangered the boat, though duplicate high capacity electric bilge pumps made it more amusing than serious in our circumstances.

Failures dont confine them selves to daylight in benign weather. A plastic paddling pool life raft is simply somewhere to die of hypothermia or seasickness.

And if you can readily get a heavy canister or valise from cabin to deployment at night in a rolling sea, well you are way stronger than I am, and I am sure my wife could not manage at all

Not sure what the conclusion here is but I will point out that skin fitting failure is a maintenance failure. Let’s assume that we all go to sea in well-found boats which is, I think, a good starting point.

 

[Tranona]

If you don’t take your boat out into conditions which might result in a foundering (Presently, with a young family, I don’t) then the relative risk of foundering reduces to zero- as I in fact said. There is then no case to weigh the usefulness of a raft which is substandard for those purposes against the risk of such a situation materialising (as I said and which exposes your false dichotomy). So, the only circumstances in which the raft is needed become calm weather close to the coast following a fire on the boat which could not be controlled. It’s quite a sufficient back-up for that. I wouldn’t ever argue it’s a (weather) survival raft and want to make it quite clear I didn’t buy it in any way thinking of those purposes. The wider point being that there are reasons to buy a life raft wholly exclusive of ideas of survival conditions and the choice should not always be framed in those terms.

But the point that I was making is that such events (fire in calm coastal conditions) are also vanishingly rare. I can think of only 3 in the last 20 odd years, 2 of which were very close to shore but the boats did not sink and crew were rescued from the burning boats and one in the middle of the N Sea which did eventually sink and the (single) crew took to their raft.

Fire is a very emotive matter - as are liferafts. Put the two together and it is difficult to come to a rational decision, but you can convince yourself that you have made a sound decision in buying one of these "light" devices. Fortunately you will never need to show whether it was a good decision or not.