New Boat - all to get underwater lights!

[admillington]

Electricial Area

Main Electrical area - 2 x isolation transformers that merge the power from the two shore inputs providing they are on the same phase.

 

[admillington]

Main Electrical Panel

This replaces the Fairline Pilot system that was on the Squadron 55 and 65. Essex noticed that one of the lights was dim and are changing it (THEY KNOW WHAT I AM LIKE).

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Main Electrical area - 2 x isolation transformers that merge the power from the two shore inputs providing they are on the same phase.

Thats interesting. Who makes those? Does that mean you can put say, 2 x 16A supplies together and get 32A for running a/c, for example?

 

[Nick_H]

Door being fitted to washing machine

Have you got any video of the paint drying

 

[jfm]

Thats interesting. Who makes those? Does that mean you can put say, 2 x 16A supplies together and get 32A for running a/c, for example?

They look like Victron. I too would be interested to know a bit more precisely what they do, in terms of merging supplies. I would expect there are two completely separate 230v circuits, one fed by each shoreline, with no merging. But I'd be interested to hear if they've changed it (to the Sq78 system)

 

[admillington]

They look like Victron. I too would be interested to know a bit more precisely what they do, in terms of merging supplies. I would expect there are two completely separate 230v circuits, one fed by each shoreline, with no merging. But I'd be interested to hear if they've changed it (to the Sq78 system)

Based on my experience with the Squadron 55 (I assume the basics will be the same with the Sq58), I plug two shore lines into two separate pontoon supplies and I get double the amps available onboard - no separate systems as with my previous Phanton 50 and Targa 52 where one was for the Air Con and one for the rest of the 240v systems.

I have pluged in two 32a and got 64a - but they have to be on the same phase or it doesn't work.

Andrew

 

[admillington]

Have you got any video of the paint drying

Sorry - will try and make future posts less boring. Some major things to happen:-

1. New teak deck on Flybridge
2. Testing the launch system with the new Williams 325
3. The trip round from Essex to Lymington.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Based on my experience with the Squadron 55 (I assume the basics will be the same with the Sq58), I plug two shore lines into two separate pontoon supplies and I get double the amps available onboard - no separate systems as with my previous Phanton 50 and Targa 52 where one was for the Air Con and one for the rest of the 240v systems.

I never really see the point of 2 separate shorepower systems. It's always the a/c that blows the shorepower supply so whether you have a separate supply for the a/c or not, if there aren't enough amps to drive the a/c via a single shorepower connection, there won't be enough if you have 2 connections. But having a system that combines 2 current supplies sounds like something well worth having. In Croatia where 16A supplies are the norm and 32A supplies the exception, the capability to combine 2 x 16A supplies to give 32A would mean the difference between having a/c and not having it on my boat. Is this standard on the Sq58 or an option and have you got a link to the supplier website?

 

[jfm]

I have plugged in two 32a and got 64a - but they have to be on the same phase or it doesn't work.

Sounds interesting, and very good. I'd be interested to find out how it works, and how it knows (before operating the join-together relay) that they're on the same phase. It must take both AC suplies into an electronic box, examine the sine wave timing, and decide whether they are same phase or 120deg apart. I haven't seen a retail product that does that.

I was rahter expecting you had 2 separate 230v circuits on the boat and one shorepower lead feeds both (becuase they are joined by a relay) but when you connect a second shorepower lead the joining relay opens and the two circuits function separately. Which is almost like saying you have 2x16=32 but not quite. This is how my s78 is wired. Ditto with my twin gensets (where it is very difficult and a bit pointless trying to synch the sinewaves)

 

[admillington]

I never really see the point of 2 separate shorepower systems. It's always the a/c that blows the shorepower supply so whether you have a separate supply for the a/c or not, if there aren't enough amps to drive the a/c via a single shorepower connection, there won't be enough if you have 2 connections. But having a system that combines 2 current supplies sounds like something well worth having. In Croatia where 16A supplies are the norm and 32A supplies the exception, the capability to combine 2 x 16A supplies to give 32A would mean the difference between having a/c and not having it on my boat. Is this standard on the Sq58 or an option and have you got a link to the supplier website?

It was standard on the Squadron 55 - I will find out exactly how it is setup/equipment used and get back to you.

 

[Nick_H]

Sorry - will try and make future posts less boring.

I trust you realised my post was just pulling your leg?

 

[newWave]

Sounds interesting, and very good. I'd be interested to find out how it works, and how it knows (before operating the join-together relay) that they're on the same phase. It must take both AC suplies into an electronic box, examine the sine wave timing, and decide whether they are same phase or 120deg apart. I haven't seen a retail product that does that.

I was rahter expecting you had 2 separate 230v circuits on the boat and one shorepower lead feeds both (becuase they are joined by a relay) but when you connect a second shorepower lead the joining relay opens and the two circuits function separately. Which is almost like saying you have 2x16=32 but not quite. This is how my s78 is wired. Ditto with my twin gensets (where it is very difficult and a bit pointless trying to synch the sinewaves)

I am no expert, but would the following do just that, combine several input sources to become 1 virtual source (and more) ?
http://www.mastervolt.com/marine/products/mass-systemswitch/mass-systemswitch-16-kva-230v/

 

[BartW]

It must take both AC suplies into an electronic box, examine the sine wave timing, and decide whether they are same phase or 120deg apart. I haven't seen a retail product that does that.

It is not that difficult to make such a box, you only have to check if the voltage between the two phases is zero, while both lines are hot,
but I don't really like it;
you can't be 100% sure that resistance in both supply lines / pontoon are equal, when they are not, the current in both lines is not the same, so one supply line might trip quicker then you expect.

I was rahter expecting you had 2 separate 230v circuits on the boat and one shorepower lead feeds both (becuase they are joined by a relay) but when you connect a second shorepower lead the joining relay opens and the two circuits function separately. Which is almost like saying you have 2x16=32 but not quite. This is how my s78 is wired.

I have modified BA the same way, she only had one monophase 63A supply, and now one extra 32A inlet automatically switching on when 230V present.
My airco can run at one 16A supply (if I switch on only one airco compressor which is OK)
so now I can run the boat on 2 x 16A supply's when I am carefull with the usage of the boiler, washing machine, dishwasher and the many halogene lights.
imho this is the best way to do it

 

[BartW]

I am no expert, but would the following do just that, combine several input sources to become 1 virtual source (and more) ?
http://www.mastervolt.com/marine/products/mass-systemswitch/mass-systemswitch-16-kva-230v/

its not the same,
it can only choose between shore OR gen supply, not add, one of them has priority. It can additionally deliver invertor supply

you can not connect two shore supply's on this unit.

 

[jfm]

It is not that difficult to make such a box, you only have to check if the voltage between the two phases is zero, while both lines are hot,
but I don't really like it;
you can't be 100% sure that resistance in both supply lines / pontoon are equal, when they are not, the current in both lines is not the same, so one supply line might trip quicker then you expect.


I have modified BA the same way, she only had one monophase 63A supply, and now one extra 32A inlet automatically switching on when 230V present.
My airco can run at one 16A supply (if I switch on only one airco compressor which is OK)
so now I can run the boat on 2 x 16A supply's when I am carefull with the usage of the boiler, washing machine, dishwasher and the many halogene lights.
imho this is the best way to do it

Thanks Bart
Actually the voltage between two different phases is zero at certain points in time, when they cross. But I guess you can measure it over a period of time not just one nanosecond

Yes I'm perfectly happy with the "two separate 230v systems that default to being joined" method becuase it gives me in effect 2 shorepowers that I can add together when I need, or one shore power and one genset, or one or two gensets

 

[admillington]

I trust you realised my post was just pulling your leg?

Of course! But I can see how a door going on could be boring. Missing not having a boat - the Squadron 55 is back in Essex - The delivery of the Squadron 58 is set for 7th April - had to help SWMBO with the garden on Sunday - now that was boring!.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes I'm perfectly happy with the "two separate 230v systems that default to being joined" method becuase it gives me in effect 2 shorepowers that I can add together when I need, or one shore power and one genset, or one or two gensets

That sounds more like an AC supply management system than an AC supply combining system. Yes you can feed 63A into circuit A or B from the shore supplies or gennies but you can't feed 2 x 63 = 126A into either circuit A or B. Say you had an AC appliance in circuit A which required 100A. Could the system on Match handle that?
The problem for me in Croatia is that 16A supplies are the norm and 32A is the exception, at least on the berths we get allocated. My aircon invariably blows a 16A circuit but works fine from a 32A supply. Is there any kind of equipment on the market which can combine 2 x 16A supplies to feed 32A into a single AC circuit? I don't see anything on the Victron or Mastervolt websites that does that

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I have modified BA the same way, she only had one monophase 63A supply, and now one extra 32A inlet automatically switching on when 230V present.
My airco can run at one 16A supply (if I switch on only one airco compressor which is OK)
so now I can run the boat on 2 x 16A supply's when I am carefull with the usage of the boiler, washing machine, dishwasher and the many halogene lights.
imho this is the best way to do it

But the key to all that is having 2 x a/c compressors rather than 1. If you had one large compressor instead of 2 smaller ones, you couldn't do that

 

[MapisM]

My aircon invariably blows a 16A circuit but works fine from a 32A supply. Is there any kind of equipment on the market which can combine 2 x 16A supplies to feed 32A into a single AC circuit?

Did you try if one of these does the trick?
Mind, I don't think you actually find it already built, 'cause you need it with male and female "reversed", compared to the pic. But building one is a 10' job.

 

[BartW]

My aircon invariably blows a 16A circuit but works fine from a 32A supply.

are you sure it is the airco only ?
16A/230V is a lot of power, for a airco unit,

it makes sense to measure the current, and if the airco solely can work on a 16A supply,
to split this up and feed this from a separate shore conection.

this is basically what I did,
16A is more then enough to heat or cool my 70ft boat.
if the startup current from the compressor motor is a problem, for that you can add a "soft start" to the electric motor