Halo
Well-known member
The policy document is attached. I now suspect that this has been revised.
Navigators ad General Insurance - any experience, good, bad or indifferent?
- Thread starter silver-fox
- Start date
Boathook
Well-known member
That is a small craft policy where mine is a yacht and motorboat policy.
Boathook
Well-known member
Let me know the answer as my engine is 30hp on a 9m Catalac !
Concerto
Well-known member
Sorry did not notice it was not a direct link. Full details are available from their web site.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/en-gb/our-cover/sailing-boat
The document I linked is here.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/...10b238e&hash=09B522B8EA04315CD35855DE10CF7089
Their simple description of cover in plain English is here.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/...63ce63e&hash=C7DD354DD25A8C36BBA9F16ED5E0E8B3
Halo
Well-known member
DOCUMENT is uploaded and available at
https://peiellje.tkhcloudstorage.com/Item/a29896b572944cc280cb55d45b51519a
https://peiellje.tkhcloudstorage.com/Item/a29896b572944cc280cb55d45b51519a
Concerto
Well-known member
This document is headed Small Craft, which is different to a yacht policy. As I suggest in post #19 you have a different type of policy.
Halo
Well-known member
So mystery solved. After 9 years on a yacht policy they either shifted me to a small boat policy without telling me or sent the wrong attachment with the renewal AND when I queried it (as a nonsense to give a Europen cover but only allow 12 miles offshore) told me that I was definately not covered.
As it happens I have saved a lot of money with Saga but will only know if it is worth it of I have a claim and there is no quibbling.
As it happens I have saved a lot of money with Saga but will only know if it is worth it of I have a claim and there is no quibbling.
NotBirdseye
Well-known member
there's always quibbling. Welcome to insurance!
C08
Well-known member
Yes I will do that.
Cowie
Member
Look at Tower Gate,
langstonelayabout
Well-known member
9 years ago I bought a 23' Pegasus 700 without a survey, parked it on my drying mooring and a couple of months later was dismayed when the hull split alongside one of the bilge keels. The boat failed to float on the incoming tide.
Once salvaged the next day, I called my insurance (N&G) who immediately sent an experienced surveyor to view the boat. His response to the insurance co was that this type of damage to a bilge keel boat on a drying mooring was an issue associated with the design of the boat. N&G confirmed to me that they weren't liable for damage resulting from design issues and their letter confirmed that they wouldn't be paying anything unless I could prove that the boat had been professionally assessed as being in good condition when I bought it.
Of course, As I didn't have a survey confirming this i was on the losing side and had to put the effective loss of my new £4,000 boat to a bad experience. I sold the boat as a project the following season for £250.
I haven't been back to N&G since, even though their quote for covering my Konsort was slightly less then Y Yacht Insurance. I'd rather insure with anyone else on earth than return to them, so disappointed was I about the loss.
Once salvaged the next day, I called my insurance (N&G) who immediately sent an experienced surveyor to view the boat. His response to the insurance co was that this type of damage to a bilge keel boat on a drying mooring was an issue associated with the design of the boat. N&G confirmed to me that they weren't liable for damage resulting from design issues and their letter confirmed that they wouldn't be paying anything unless I could prove that the boat had been professionally assessed as being in good condition when I bought it.
Of course, As I didn't have a survey confirming this i was on the losing side and had to put the effective loss of my new £4,000 boat to a bad experience. I sold the boat as a project the following season for £250.
I haven't been back to N&G since, even though their quote for covering my Konsort was slightly less then Y Yacht Insurance. I'd rather insure with anyone else on earth than return to them, so disappointed was I about the loss.
NotBirdseye
Well-known member
To be fair to N&G, a survey is pretty standard if you buy a boat without a survey you need to be absolutely confident that the boat is fine. N&G required me to have a survey before they'd even consider insuring.
ashtead
Well-known member
It would seem to me the decision in post 31 was based on the expert opinion of the surveyor. It is of course open to an insured to obtain his own opinion but without that challenge I doubt a court or ombudsman is likely to dispute the expert evidence. I suggest if the insured had a survey on purchase it might have added some merit to disputing the expert evidence. I would have have thought many insurers might have declined cover as after all they don’t cover pre existing conditions.
Greg2
Well-known member
Insurance has been discussed in depth on the Mobo forum and the key thing is to read the policy fully because many have gaps that in the wrong circumstances could be a problem. Key points are insured value, the insurance company having the option to replace a total loss with a similar boat, leaving a boat at anchor and covering things such as a failed skin fitting (many don’t include the latter). If memory serves N&G don’t neccesarily fare well on all of these points.
Received wisdom was that the best policy was Y Yacht insurance and for a while they were good on cost too but following successive notable price hikes some were moving away and they have now been taken over by Topsail. A bit of a read but this is the latest thread
.
Received wisdom was that the best policy was Y Yacht insurance and for a while they were good on cost too but following successive notable price hikes some were moving away and they have now been taken over by Topsail. A bit of a read but this is the latest thread
.
langstonelayabout
Well-known member
I might have missed a bit: The boat was insured under N&G's Small Craft Policy. I was told that I didn't need a survey as the boat was less than 24'.
That is what really peeved me: No survey was required except when things have gone wrong, putting all of the advantages firmly in the court of the insurer. By the time something had gone wrong it was too late for me.
Amusingly, the surveyor appointed by the insurer was both extremely experienced and had spent 20+ years working for Westerly, where they had experienced the consequences of the same design issues.
ashtead
Well-known member
I think the moral of the tale is to have a survey before purchase-I guess the grey haired ex Westerly man might have seen a few boats in his time and have detected issues at time of purchase. The insurance isn’t intended to cover the risks of poor design after all. That’s why you buy extended warranty cover for example if you buy a Porsche just in case the engine etc fails on your Cayenne etc. I don’t think your average marine policy is intended to cover this type of risk of poor build.
Concerto
Well-known member
The moral of the story would be a surveyor should have advised against buying the boat. If he did not then he would have a liability for failing to detect the problem.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
If you are with Topsail, they have quite a different contract from Nav and Gen. Because Y yachts has passed my to Topsail, I was confused when reading the contract, as a Westerly owner, I have access with a better discount which turned it out quite different.
I was always wary of the contract as when I left them they had a horrid clause where the have an Agreed Value contract, but followed by, but we can replace with an alternative vessel. Protection against over valuing, who of course they should catch on underwriting. Topsail have a different wording. Agreed Value, good, but for the down, We may not pay if you fail to tell is of a change in Market Value! Well what is it?, it's certainly not an Agreed Value with a contradiction like that.
As n&g have changed their contract, to a much fairer one. They allow a value of 30% above market value before they get upset. Now some one please tell me what Market Value is....
I would prefer a full Agreed Value policy which is available at GJW.
so in the next week or so it's make up my mind time.
.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Craftinsure have a different policy wording again from N and g direct. Don't assume they are the same. It's probably the worst version., ie a market value policy, fine with a big standard yacht, but no good for a well equipped cruising yacht.
silver-fox
Active member
Thanks for all the feedback everyone, very useful and much appreciated!