Navigators ad General Insurance - any experience, good, bad or indifferent?

[Halo]

The policy document is attached. I now suspect that this has been revised.

 

[Boathook]

The policy document is attached. I now suspect that this has been revised.

That is a small craft policy where mine is a yacht and motorboat policy.

 

[Boathook]

That is interesting - I have just examined my policy document (Yacht and Motorboat Policy ) and it does not have any reference 12 miles from the coast of Uk orEurope or refernce to inland waters. I wonder whether there are different N&G Policies?
Thank you for raising this as whilst looking at the document it has brought to my attention a clause requiring my attachment to a kill cord when the motor is engaged. This is clearly intended for small motor boats but as my main engine is a 25hp outboard on a cat I will run by N&G that it is not normal to attach a kill cord on the helm of a 4 ton catamaran!

Let me know the answer as my engine is 30hp on a 9m Catalac !

 

[Concerto]

Please consider uploading the file to Onedrive and share from there (or another cloud service of your choosing). We can't access your local server without at least an extrenal ip address. (Which I don't suggest providing except via pm to those you trust).

Sorry did not notice it was not a direct link. Full details are available from their web site.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/en-gb/our-cover/sailing-boat

The document I linked is here.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/...10b238e&hash=09B522B8EA04315CD35855DE10CF7089

Their simple description of cover in plain English is here.
https://www.navandgen.zurich.co.uk/...63ce63e&hash=C7DD354DD25A8C36BBA9F16ED5E0E8B3

 

[Halo]

DOCUMENT is uploaded and available at

https://peiellje.tkhcloudstorage.com/Item/a29896b572944cc280cb55d45b51519a

 

[Concerto]

DOCUMENT is uploaded and available at

https://peiellje.tkhcloudstorage.com/Item/a29896b572944cc280cb55d45b51519a

This document is headed Small Craft, which is different to a yacht policy. As I suggest in post #19 you have a different type of policy.

 

[Halo]

So mystery solved. After 9 years on a yacht policy they either shifted me to a small boat policy without telling me or sent the wrong attachment with the renewal AND when I queried it (as a nonsense to give a Europen cover but only allow 12 miles offshore) told me that I was definately not covered.

As it happens I have saved a lot of money with Saga but will only know if it is worth it of I have a claim and there is no quibbling.

 

[NotBirdseye]

So mystery solved. After 9 years on a yacht policy they either shifted me to a small boat policy without telling me or sent the wrong attachment with the renewal AND when I queried it (as a nonsense to give a Europen cover but only allow 12 miles offshore) told me that I was definately not covered.

As it happens I have saved a lot of money with Saga but will only know if it is worth it of I have a claim and there is no quibbling.

there's always quibbling. Welcome to insurance!

 

[C08]

Let me know the answer as my engine is 30hp on a 9m Catalac !

Yes I will do that.

 

[Cowie]

I have been with the same broker for 12 years. On renewal this month, they have advised they are changing to Navigators and General - which is part of the Zurich.

Anyone out there had any good or bad experiences to share before I sign Up?

Look at Tower Gate,

 

[langstonelayabout]

9 years ago I bought a 23' Pegasus 700 without a survey, parked it on my drying mooring and a couple of months later was dismayed when the hull split alongside one of the bilge keels. The boat failed to float on the incoming tide.

Once salvaged the next day, I called my insurance (N&G) who immediately sent an experienced surveyor to view the boat. His response to the insurance co was that this type of damage to a bilge keel boat on a drying mooring was an issue associated with the design of the boat. N&G confirmed to me that they weren't liable for damage resulting from design issues and their letter confirmed that they wouldn't be paying anything unless I could prove that the boat had been professionally assessed as being in good condition when I bought it.

Of course, As I didn't have a survey confirming this i was on the losing side and had to put the effective loss of my new £4,000 boat to a bad experience. I sold the boat as a project the following season for £250.

I haven't been back to N&G since, even though their quote for covering my Konsort was slightly less then Y Yacht Insurance. I'd rather insure with anyone else on earth than return to them, so disappointed was I about the loss.

 

[NotBirdseye]

9 years ago I bought a 23' Pegasus 700 without a survey, parked it on my drying mooring and a couple of months later was dismayed when the hull split alongside one of the bilge keels. The boat failed to float on the incoming tide.

Once salvaged the next day, I called my insurance (N&G) who immediately sent an experienced surveyor to view the boat. His response to the insurance co was that this type of damage to a bilge keel boat on a drying mooring was an issue associated with the design of the boat. N&G confirmed to me that they weren't liable for damage resulting from design issues and their letter confirmed that they wouldn't be paying anything unless I could prove that the boat had been professionally assessed as being in good condition when I bought it.

Of course, As I didn't have a survey confirming this i was on the losing side and had to put the effective loss of my new £4,000 boat to a bad experience. I sold the boat as a project the following season for £250.

I haven't been back to N&G since, even though their quote for covering my Konsort was slightly less then Y Yacht Insurance. I'd rather insure with anyone else on earth than return to them, so disappointed was I about the loss.

To be fair to N&G, a survey is pretty standard if you buy a boat without a survey you need to be absolutely confident that the boat is fine. N&G required me to have a survey before they'd even consider insuring.

 

[ashtead]

It would seem to me the decision in post 31 was based on the expert opinion of the surveyor. It is of course open to an insured to obtain his own opinion but without that challenge I doubt a court or ombudsman is likely to dispute the expert evidence. I suggest if the insured had a survey on purchase it might have added some merit to disputing the expert evidence. I would have have thought many insurers might have declined cover as after all they don’t cover pre existing conditions.

 

[Greg2]

Insurance has been discussed in depth on the Mobo forum and the key thing is to read the policy fully because many have gaps that in the wrong circumstances could be a problem. Key points are insured value, the insurance company having the option to replace a total loss with a similar boat, leaving a boat at anchor and covering things such as a failed skin fitting (many don’t include the latter). If memory serves N&G don’t neccesarily fare well on all of these points.

Received wisdom was that the best policy was Y Yacht insurance and for a while they were good on cost too but following successive notable price hikes some were moving away and they have now been taken over by Topsail. A bit of a read but this is the latest thread
.

 

[langstonelayabout]

To be fair to N&G, a survey is pretty standard if you buy a boat without a survey you need to be absolutely confident that the boat is fine. N&G required me to have a survey before they'd even consider insuring.

I might have missed a bit: The boat was insured under N&G's Small Craft Policy. I was told that I didn't need a survey as the boat was less than 24'.

That is what really peeved me: No survey was required except when things have gone wrong, putting all of the advantages firmly in the court of the insurer. By the time something had gone wrong it was too late for me.

Amusingly, the surveyor appointed by the insurer was both extremely experienced and had spent 20+ years working for Westerly, where they had experienced the consequences of the same design issues.

 

[ashtead]

I think the moral of the tale is to have a survey before purchase-I guess the grey haired ex Westerly man might have seen a few boats in his time and have detected issues at time of purchase. The insurance isn’t intended to cover the risks of poor design after all. That’s why you buy extended warranty cover for example if you buy a Porsche just in case the engine etc fails on your Cayenne etc. I don’t think your average marine policy is intended to cover this type of risk of poor build.

 

[Concerto]

I think the moral of the tale is to have a survey before purchase-I guess the grey haired ex Westerly man might have seen a few boats in his time and have detected issues at time of purchase. The insurance isn’t intended to cover the risks of poor design after all. That’s why you buy extended warranty cover for example if you buy a Porsche just in case the engine etc fails on your Cayenne etc. I don’t think your average marine policy is intended to cover this type of risk of poor build.

The moral of the story would be a surveyor should have advised against buying the boat. If he did not then he would have a liability for failing to detect the problem.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I have been with the same broker for 12 years. On renewal this month, they have advised they are changing to Navigators and General - which is part of the Zurich.

Anyone out there had any good or bad experiences to share before I sign Up?

If you are with Topsail, they have quite a different contract from Nav and Gen. Because Y yachts has passed my to Topsail, I was confused when reading the contract, as a Westerly owner, I have access with a better discount which turned it out quite different.
I was always wary of the contract as when I left them they had a horrid clause where the have an Agreed Value contract, but followed by, but we can replace with an alternative vessel. Protection against over valuing, who of course they should catch on underwriting. Topsail have a different wording. Agreed Value, good, but for the down, We may not pay if you fail to tell is of a change in Market Value! Well what is it?, it's certainly not an Agreed Value with a contradiction like that.
As n&g have changed their contract, to a much fairer one. They allow a value of 30% above market value before they get upset. Now some one please tell me what Market Value is....

I would prefer a full Agreed Value policy which is available at GJW.
so in the next week or so it's make up my mind time.
.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I was insured by Craftinsure, an on-line company underwritten by N&G. I had a severe fire on board in 2019 leading to the boat being declared a total loss. Craftinsure passed the claim to N&G who dealt with the process. The whole experience was very smooth, and the claim handler was very sympathetic and helpful. The claim was settled in just over two weeks (for a high five figure sum). I couldn't imagine a better or swifter response to a very distressing situation.

Craftinsure have a different policy wording again from N and g direct. Don't assume they are the same. It's probably the worst version., ie a market value policy, fine with a big standard yacht, but no good for a well equipped cruising yacht.

 

[silver-fox]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, very useful and much appreciated!