Much maligned bowthrusters.

[nicho]

Over on Motor Boat Chat, there's a thread deriding the "abominations" known as bowthrusters. Like all modern "conveniences" (and it seems in mast reefing is also in that category), the traditionalists line up to fire broadsides to damn their very existance.

Yesterday, a visitor in our marina, very much in the traditionalist mould, with his pipe, beard and "classic" old time boat (long keel, grp hull, and lovely to look at wooden superstructure) tried time and time again to get his boat to turn through he F4 wind to leave the berth. He failed, eventually running out of room, and having to park in a vacant berth before he hit the wall at the end of the pontoon. Then, by a series of lines around various pontoon cleats, and with the assistance of a couple of other berth holders, the boat was eventually pointed towards the direction of the exit and he managed to leave, some 15 minutes after he intended (missing the lock to boot, I believe).

He was mightily embarrassed, and loudly offered his apologies and thanks to those who suffered near misses and strained backs to heave the thing around.

Tell me again, what on earth is wrong with fitting a bowthruster to such a totally unmanagable close quarter boat??

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[LadyInBed]

Totally agree, if I had the money I would fit one. It would help get me off my riverside mooring when the wind is blowing me onto the bank.
But I wouldn't want inmast reefing /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[adarcy]

Excuse me for butting in as a moboer but "over there" it is mainly a light-hearted dig at 1 or 2 who don't seem to want BTs most of us are only too happy to have something that makes life easier in what should be a pleasant liesure experience. That is not to deny that people ought ot have some idea how to control their boat without it i.e. not become totally reliant on it

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[johna]

Not planted a kedge across the river yet Nigel!!

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[Guest]

Like most things its howyou use it ...

We have all seen the guy with hand on BT control and the ensuing racket as he thrashes water and turns the boat with the biggest gut fulls of power he can muster.
Then again you see the odd guy who uses it masterfully with minimum fuss, along with prop etc.

I know who I think is the Master of his Boat .....

In a marina I visited recently in UK ... there's a small power boat of about 20ft .... maybe 22 .... but blow me silly .... I'm sitting there sipping my beer waiting for crew to arrive and this GRP fart box pulls up and great gutfulls of BT throttle proceeds to display his masculinity via the amount of noise and water he can thrash with it .... honest his boat is one with steerable outdrive leg etc. What the hell does he need a BT for ?


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Eccles]

The difference today from the hey days of classic long keeled yachts is that 50 years ago you would not have rafted 6 or 8 deep on marina pontoons, shoe horned in to every available space - to my mind bow thrusters are not a substitiute for poor seamanship but an answer to the changes in the cruising environment.

Having seen some people get into a great pickle without while those with glide out of the crowded marina without breaking a sweat, I'd have one if I hadn't so many other things on the wish list!

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[BrendanS]

Grr! just ban any sort of mechanical equipment in sailing boats!

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[nicho]

Certainly, from our point of view, fitting a bowthruster has transformed our lives whilst extricating ourselves from our rather tight marina berth, or when pinned against a pontoon, or a raft, by winds or tide - without doubt the best couple of grand I've spent on the boat. Oh yes, and I quite like the convenience of our in mast reefing too, but then we arn't looking for the last half knot of performance.

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[Moose]

"I quite like the convenience of our in mast reefing too"
Has it not jammed yet? I haven't heard a satisfied owner till now!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.phantom37.co.uk>Best boat in the world for sale</A>

 

[Rob_Webb]

I think most of the criticism is about the way they are used and possibly some of the very small craft that seem to have them, rather than their existence per se. When push comes to shove (literally) I don't think that many sailors who value their gelcoat would turn one down when considering the list of optional extras on larger yacht, say 40ft+. I wouldn't.

I was recently aboard a newish 54footer with a bow thruster that had failed and so as we manoeuvered into a stern-to berth on the town quay I had to hover around in the dinghy to give the occassional nugde to the bow, one way or the other. No drama but obviously a BT would have helped here and there's no slight to anyone's manhood by saying so!

I reckon that if you wound the forum clock back a few decades you would see a similar discussion about the rights and wrongs of having an auxilary engine in a yacht, and how many people would seriously do without theirs today?


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[LadyInBed]

Wanted - Old decent size Danforth and about four meters of chain! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[Amphitrite]

Well, why would one need a BT, if everything necessary for maneuvers at close quarters is already on board - an engine and a decent set of lines and springs! I sail regularly on traditional schooners (with long keels obviously), the "worst" having 130 ft and only 90hp. Still we manage to get in small danish ports without trouble, the key is to take some time and look ahead. No need for a BT occurred so far, neither did it on yachts in marinas for me.
But I can see that BT's are useful for Mobos as they don't have keels and tend to drift if they make low speed (please excuse my bad english, I'm a Jonny Foreigner ;-).

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[zefender]

But I think time is the enemy. People don't really have the time to fart about with lines all over the place. Also, in a crowded marina, you'd have a queue of people waiting to get into, out out of their berths, as you maneouvre round.

Mind you, I'm not convinced bow thrusters aren't something of a comfort blanket for some. Last month, I chartered a SO49 in greece. The boat was one of about 6 of different sizes. All of them were only 8 weeks old. We used the bow thruster a couple of times but I noticed, despite all the noise and bubbles, it didn't seem to do anything useful at all. So I had a look over the side and noticed that it seemed to be about 1 foot too high up and most of the business end was above the waterline. On our return to the marina at the end of the charter I mentioned this to the manager and he agreed there was a problem with all of that year's flotilla - all had the bow thrusters installed much too high and were going to have to be fixed. "But, said the manager, since you are the only customer to have mentioned that there is a problem with them, maybe we'll just leave them as they are"!

I'm in favour of any bit of kit that potentially avoids damage and enables a small crew to berth without fuss and worry. I put them in my 'nice to have' category - though I don't have BTs. I just wish they were a bit quieter though!

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[branko]

Years ago I met a lot of true sailors who told negative about roll genoa and today have roll genoa. Think that will be the same with furling in mast. Comodity is comodity.

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[pessimist]

We fitted a bow thruster last year. Our mooring is on an up/down tide pontoon with boats fore and aft. On the couple of occasions we've had cause to use it (leaving with the tide astern and a breeze blowing us onto the pontoon) it has certainly ease the worries of those in the downtide berth. It is not essential (we managed for 6 years without) but its a jolly nice toy and I'd fit one again.

<hr width=100% size=1>A pessimist is an optimist in full possession of the facts

 

[nicho]

Nope, not once - it's a new Selden in mast unit and is VERY easy to operate. As long as there is enough tension kept on the outhaul line when reefing, preventing it from "bagging" inside the mast, there's never a problem. Some of the earlier add on systems were not so good, and perhaps that's what gave it a bad name - obviously, it's not suitable if you are racing, 'cos you do lose the equivalent of half a reef on the mainsail, but for us cruisers it's 'tickty boo' thanks!! There was a similar prejudice to headsail furling in the early days, but it seems that's acceptable now.
A lot of boats around us in the marina have in mast, and no one seems to have a problem. Should it jam, you simply let off the outhaul, and pull the sail up to the mast, and tie it off with warp. Probably not much fun, but a way out.

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[nicho]

They must have some depth to operate effeciently, and of course, they do not really operate with any way on. There's a newish 42 footer near us and it's factory fitted bowthruster is far to close to the surface - it's cavitates away to it's hearts content, and seems to have little power. It's quite a challenge to fit one on a modern hull, but we have managed to fit ours well below the surface - it bites well, with no cavitation, and is very powerful, turning the bow through strong wind/tides with no problem at all. In the tight confines of Hythe Marina with wind blowing, it has reduced my stress level 1000% (down from critical to merely high!!!)

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[nicho]

It's a bit like ABS on a car - you probably only need it a couple of times a year, but boy, on those occasions, you are pleased to have it!

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[Guest]

<<But I can see that BT's are useful for Mobos as they don't have keels and tend to drift if they make low speed>>

Thought all waterborne craft did this with or without keel ????

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[adarcy]

Re: Yes but...

mobos do it to a much much greater extent. Obviously they usually have more windage and most planing hulls don't have any appreciable keel. The ones that do like semi-displacement Brooms handle much more like a sailing boat. Added to that, high speed rudders are pretty useless at manoeuvring speeds and add very litttle to deflect the prop wash.

I'm sure I'm not telling you news but I have found most raggies that I have taken out are quite surprised how different a mobo handles at v slow speed in comparison with their yachts

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