Moving to/from the dark side - yacht size

[lpdsn]

Mrs G has done some research online and the Bennie 37 would seem to be well rigged for easy and effective sailing on all points of wind. Described as a sailors boat and great for wind in your face sailing ‘by the seat of your pants’. Like the sound of that....anyone got experience of this model?

That may well have been written by their sales team. Beneteau produce the First range of cruiser racers, so anything that isn't a First generally has less emphasis on sailing characteristics and will have less sail area, although they do sometimes use the same hull, albeit the First will have a better keel and ballast. Beware also that the Beneteaus generally like to be sailed quite flat and can round up if overcanvassed. Nothing you can't learn to deal with for normal saling, but pushing it 'by the seat of your pants' requires a bit more focus and teamwork.

 

[Lucky Duck]

2m draft would be a severe limitation for getting in and out of both those marinas.

Means you are limited to spring tides, not the end of the world but means arriving on an early evening tide and leaving the following morning is no longer possible.

 

[pvb]

Overall a useful day and given us something to think about. Three more to look at tomorrow

You seem to have a very flexible budget. If you're prepared to pay anything like SP Cruiser money, you could get yourselves a beautiful Hallberg-Rassy!

 

[Norman_E]

Okay, so engine size on the 42 DS is probably alright. Agree that the IP Cruiser is probably a niche thing but if we went that way it would be on the basis that it is the ‘forever’ boat.

Interesting points about the twin helm thing and clearly some benefit if they are independent systems with twin throttles. Not sure but suspect the 42 DS doesn’t have that but can check.

Mrs G has done some research online and the Bennie 37 would seem to be well rigged for easy and effective sailing on all points of wind. Described as a sailors boat and great for wind in your face sailing ‘by the seat of your pants’. Like the sound of that....anyone got experience of this model?

Every Jeanneau I have seen with twin wheels has a single quadrant and a single cable and chain circuit connects it to both wheels. Its a reliable setup and you are unlikely ever to need the emergency tiller. The only time I have ever used mine was when the wheels had been removed to have new leather fitted and I needed to move the boat to another berth. This involved going astern for quite a long distance between two pontoons. It taught me two things. Firstly it was a very good thing that I had extended the tiller with a stout length of wood driven in to the open end. Secondly that full use of the rudder can only be made with the wheels off. In emergency I would first fit the tiller, then take the wheels off and put them below. A decent autopilot working directly on the quadrant will continue to steer the boat even if the cable were to fail.

 

[Greg2]

You seem to have a very flexible budget. If you're prepared to pay anything like SP Cruiser money, you could get yourselves a beautiful Hallberg-Rassy!

To a point but in reality just not shy of negotiating. If it works all good for all parties if not then move on and wish the seller well.

Hallberg-Rassey obviously a quality boat but not sure if it is our thing. Looked at an Island Packet 370 today and quite liked it.

 

[ashtead]

What sort of keel does the IP370 have? Might be a consideration but they are solid boats and have the plus of a self tacking headsail which might be useful . There must be few owners on this forum who can tell you more. Probably need a reasonable breeze to move along under sail?

 

[Greg2]

What sort of keel does the IP370 have? Might be a consideration but they are solid boats and have the plus of a self tacking headsail which might be useful . There must be few owners on this forum who can tell you more. Probably need a reasonable breeze to move along under sail?

Yes, it has what IP describe as a ‘full foil keel’, which as far as I can see is a full length shallow-ish keel with the rudder set well back and supported by a bar running from the keel. A search online reveals that IP yachts appear to engender love and hate (and I mean hate - some strongly worded opinions but usually not based on having owned one). Key themes seem to be a little tricky to manoeuvre in marinas/anchorages (detractors refer to them as being a ‘pig to handle’), need a bit of wind to shift them, maybe not pointing as high as some but okay, good seakeeping, oodles of storage space, larger than average tankage and top quality build.

Has a cutter rig so two sails up front with a Hoyt boom. I am not familiar with the relative merits of such a rig so thoughts and experience would be appreciated.

 

[pvb]

A search online reveals that IP yachts appear to engender love and hate (and I mean hate - some strongly worded opinions but usually not based on having owned one).

Obviously it's a subjective judgement, but I don't think most IP boats are attractive.

 

[Greg2]

Obviously it's a subjective judgement, but I don't think most IP boats are attractive.

And that seems to be theme too. I think they are attractive with good seamanlike lines but it is indeed subjective

 

[jonic]

I like them :encouragement:

 

[dunedin]

Yes, it has what IP describe as a ‘full foil keel’, which as far as I can see is a full length shallow-ish keel with the rudder set well back and supported by a bar running from the keel. A search online reveals that IP yachts appear to engender love and hate (and I mean hate - some strongly worded opinions but usually not based on having owned one). Key themes seem to be a little tricky to manoeuvre in marinas/anchorages (detractors refer to them as being a ‘pig to handle’), need a bit of wind to shift them, maybe not pointing as high as some but okay, good seakeeping, oodles of storage space, larger than average tankage and top quality build.

Has a cutter rig so two sails up front with a Hoyt boom. I am not familiar with the relative merits of such a rig so thoughts and experience would be appreciated.

Yes, and easy / stress free manoeuvring in marinas, and enjoyable sailing in lighter breezes when I want to go sailing, are two of my key criteria for a boat - areas where I suspect the Jeaneau 42DS would be preferable to my mind.

 

[Bobc]

Could I suggest that the OP tales a look at some Southerly's. They are HUGE for their length and very specious and airy below, and the lifting keel would allow him to visit his favourite places.

 

[ashtead]

Yes My previous post was really to elicit some comments on their keels and as you say conflicting views on challenges presented. I assume there is an IP owners club which might be a source of info on this aspect. I suspect the importance or otherwise is dependent on proposed berthing and time for training etc. I don't believe double headsails create issues apart from furling the outer one when tacking so in reality you might end up just using the self tacker is say the Solent unless you have an active crew maybe? We don't have a Hoyt but do have double headsails and for longer distances have found it a great advantage generally .

 

[xyachtdave]

OP...I think you need to sail some different boats with your partner!

Opinions on here mainly fall into the 'my boat is brilliant, anything else is 2nd place' category. If you're thinking of spending 6 figures or more, a few quid spent chartering some of your shortlisted boats will be money well spent.

Good luck whatever you do!

 

[Tranona]

OP...I think you need to sail some different boats with your partner!

Opinions on here mainly fall into the 'my boat is brilliant, anything else is 2nd place' category. If you're thinking of spending 6 figures or more, a few quid spent chartering some of your shortlisted boats will be money well spent.

Good luck whatever you do!

The problem with that suggestion is that there are only a limited range of boats available for charter and it could turn out an expensive exercise. While it is correct to say that many people suggest the boats they own or have owned (although careful reading will show that this is not always the case), the advice often comes because the poster is in a similar position to the way the enquirer describes his expectations.

The reality is that the vast majority of buyers never sail the boat before buying because they have done their homework using a variety of sources including advice on here and arrived at a short list of very similar boats. After viewing there is invariably one or maybe 2 that stand out and the buying process begins.

The discussion around Jeanneaus and IPs is a good example. These are very different styles of boats, but perhaps for that reason they may come up in an initial search, particularly if they have both been inspected. The IP is sufficiently different to ask the question - would this be a suitable boat? Owners on here will tell you why they like their boat which would make a useful comparison with why Jeanneau owners chose theirs.

 

[rotrax]

The iphomeport is the best source of info from owners.

But, they are not the most neutral of commentators!

IP's have there problems, close quarters manouvering among them.

But they were built for the trade winds-15-20 KTS on the beam or behind and they fly.

When the wind wont serve motorsailing is a good option with an IP.

As another poster said, its very subjective.

When we went down the IP route it was a steep learning curve for sure. Their comfort alongside and on the hook, IMHO, more than makes up for their shortcomings.

We are happy with our choice, which, at the end of the day, is all that matters.

 

[Greg2]

Thought about chartering but as Tranona says, it could get expensive and unless we spend quite a bit will end up sailing a Jean/Ben/Bav, which we have already experienced. Would probably have to go to the States to charter an IP so the purchase budget could take a hammering.

Close quarters handling is a concern but I suspect that with a bit (lot) of practice we would develop tricks and workarounds. Done similar with a sports cruiser - Fairline Targa with twin outdrives - made for efficient planing speed (23-27 knots) on calm-ish water and a bugger to handle at low speeds in a windy marina. Not sure I ever fully mastered it but I did get very good at recovering when it all went pear shaped

As for sailing in light airs I have read a report that indicates that it (the 370) isn’t too bad and it was interesting that the owner of a Jeanneau 40DS we viewed on Sunday said that it really needed a F3 to get moving. As an aside one of these was top of our list when we last considered moving to sail. Fits a lot in (two double berths and a double saloon conversion, two heads/showers and excellent storage). Spacious cockpit, great views out when sitting in the saloon and good reports on sailing ability. One we saw had the helm right forward against the cabin, bit like a cat. Meant the cockpit had plenty of room but always looking through Perspex windows in the spray hood when under way so not sure about view when sailing. One of these is definitely an option though and a lot less gold than the IP

We can see some parallels between our old Broom motor cruiser and the Island Packet, which is probably why we like it. Heavy, quality build that will take pretty much anything that you can throw at it; good practical seamanlike design so no swoopy curves or form over function victories; not the fastest boat but one which makes you feel very safe and secure in a seaway; quality traditional fit out below - simply a very pleasant place to be with good island berth and no climbing and twisting to get into bed; overall quality meaning that they are usually well looked after and wear very well. But not cheap....

Not has a proper look at a Southerly yet but probably ought too......

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The boat you describe with the wheel forward in the cockpit, sounds like the Beneteau CC ? Not seen a Jeanneau like that but happy to stand corrected.

 

[Greg2]

The boat you describe with the wheel forward in the cockpit, sounds like the Beneteau CC ? Not seen a Jeanneau like that but happy to stand corrected.

Apparently an option to have the wheel forward or on a binnacle further aft in the more usual position

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2...sey-40-DS-3143082/United-Kingdom#.WnAlXOanyhA

 

[Greg2]

The iphomeport is the best source of info from owners.

But, they are not the most neutral of commentators!

Informative site thanks Mike.