Moving to/from the dark side - yacht size

[Sybarite]

Depending upon your perspective we are (again) considering a move to/from the dark side

We sold our Broom 41 last year and have been considering options for a while. Our thoughts have turned to sailing as we have previously enjoyed charters abroad and I have sailed on and off since I was a lad. I have YM (Offshore) for power and ICC for sail and power up to 24m.

Thoughts are to maybe buy used in the UK with a view to mooring reasonably locally and building experience through regular day sails and cruises. We tend to boat most weekends and holidays so whilst we are reasonably competent (ish) this would provide the opportunity to become more experienced as well as providing time to do whatever needs to be done to the boat before a possible move to the Med.

I am not small (6’5”) and we have got used to a reasonable sized boat and would like the ability to host friends and family in the future so we are thinking something in the 40+ foot size. Maybe a Jeanneau 43 deck saloon - we previously considered one and like them and being mobo types the ability to see out is reassuring

Now my thoughts are that we should be able to handle this size of yacht with just myself and my wife. Am I right?

Would also welcome any thoughts, comments, suggestions etc on our possible plan.

Cheers

Have a word with Sailfree; he has a Jeanneau 43 DS.

 

[Greg2]

Thanks Syrbarite, I will

 

[alexsailor]

I own SO 43DS and I am 6,2 "small".
Perfect boat.

 

[Greg2]

I own SO 43DS and I am 6,2 "small".
Perfect boat.

Good to know. Any tips on things to look for? We just missed one that John Rodriguez had on....rang to arrange a viewing and it had just gone under offer that morning!

Do you know if they did a shoal keel version? Would prefer as we are East Coast, at least for the time being.

 

[xyachtdave]

Good to know. Any tips on things to look for? We just missed one that John Rodriguez had on....rang to arrange a viewing and it had just gone under offer that morning!

Do you know if they did a shoal keel version? Would prefer as we are East Coast, at least for the time being.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over the keel depth on the East Coast unless you want to dry out in a creek or keep the boat somewhere like Conyer Creek.

2m is fine around here, it's only when you get into the bigger performance yachts with 2.0 - 2.4 m draft or more you'll notice the restrictions entering and leaving harbours. Generally speaking 2m at LW is normally ok at say somewhere like Ramsgate, which bearing in mind you'll be arriving and leaving during this period as your new yacht needs a favourable tide to get anywhere, means a huge keel can be a problem.

I can't honestly think of anywhere you can visit with a 1.5m but not 2m draft.

 

[Greg2]

I wouldn't beat yourself up over the keel depth on the East Coast unless you want to dry out in a creek or keep the boat somewhere like Conyer Creek.

2m is fine around here, it's only when you get into the bigger performance yachts with 2.0 - 2.4 m draft or more you'll notice the restrictions entering and leaving harbours. Generally speaking 2m at LW is normally ok at say somewhere like Ramsgate, which bearing in mind you'll be arriving and leaving during this period as your new yacht needs a favourable tide to get anywhere, means a huge keel can be a problem.

I can't honestly think of anywhere you can visit with a 1.5m but not 2m draft.

That’s interesting. Our favourite spots include Woodbridge (Tidemill) and Tollesbury, the approaches to both dry at low water and they have a cill so thought there might be issues getting there. Will check heights

 

[Tranona]

That’s interesting. Our favourite spots include Woodbridge (Tidemill) and Tollesbury, the approaches to both dry at low water and they have a cill so thought there might be issues getting there. Will check heights[/QUOTE}

There are restrictions with deeper drafts, but you just work around them. In a way you are fortunate with your tides on the east coast because you have more distinct cycles and a greater range than we have in much of the Solent and particularly in Poole where for me the shallow(er) 1.5m draft has definite advantages. For example I can get through East Looe channel at low water which makes going to and from the Solent easier and quicker. Would not get through at the same state of tide with 2m. Within the harbour I can use some of the short cut channels that again are dodgy with 2m.

So draft is probably not a deal breaker, you just have to accept that there are some things you cannot do, or parts that you cannot reach. However if these are really important to you then perhaps you should be looking at a different kind of boat.

 

[Greg2]

That’s interesting. Our favourite spots include Woodbridge (Tidemill) and Tollesbury, the approaches to both dry at low water and they have a cill so thought there might be issues getting there. Will check heights[/QUOTE}

There are restrictions with deeper drafts, but you just work around them. In a way you are fortunate with your tides on the east coast because you have more distinct cycles and a greater range than we have in much of the Solent and particularly in Poole where for me the shallow(er) 1.5m draft has definite advantages. For example I can get through East Looe channel at low water which makes going to and from the Solent easier and quicker. Would not get through at the same state of tide with 2m. Within the harbour I can use some of the short cut channels that again are dodgy with 2m.

So draft is probably not a deal breaker, you just have to accept that there are some things you cannot do, or parts that you cannot reach. However if these are really important to you then perhaps you should be looking at a different kind of boat.

I guess for us minimising any restriction on where you can go is preferable. So if a shoal draft doesn’t affect performance and stability to a significant degree then that would be our default, to cater for just the sort of thing you describe re the East Looe channel.

To be fair, last time we seriously considered a yacht we ended up sticking with power on the basis that it enables so much more in terms of where you can go and in particular it makes inland and coastal cruising possible. We like the places we visit as much as we like the experience in getting there. This time round I sense that we really would like or do some sailing and that the Med may be a possibility at some stage. We have always said that we would prefer a yacht in the Med so that may be the clincher.

A motor sailer has always been a consideration too and the Island Packet SP Cruiser has always caught my eye albeit we would need to see some price reductions on those currently on offer. Rotrax has one and I have been chatting with him to get a better understanding of the pros and cons from an owners perspective (loads of views on motor sailers area aired on the YBW forums over the years).

 

[pvb]

That’s interesting. Our favourite spots include Woodbridge (Tidemill) and Tollesbury, the approaches to both dry at low water and they have a cill so thought there might be issues getting there. Will check heights

2m draft would be a severe limitation for getting in and out of both those marinas.

 

[alexsailor]

Good to know. Any tips on things to look for? We just missed one that John Rodriguez had on....rang to arrange a viewing and it had just gone under offer that morning!

Do you know if they did a shoal keel version? Would prefer as we are East Coast, at least for the time being.

Take a look at Jeanneau forum. http://jeanneau.proboards.com
I do not know (also from other owners) for any common (serial) problems.
Mine is year 2002, I own it for ten years and it is "as new" condition.
Plenty of space, relatively good performance (it is not a motor sailor), handling and in my version (two cabins) very comfortable.
It is hard to find a 43footer with two cabins (usually 3 or 4).

Maybe take a look at Waquiez 43 (or 40) PS. But that could be a little more expensive.

 

[ashtead]

You could look at a Moody as plenty of 40 plus footers around

 

[Greg2]

2m draft would be a severe limitation for getting in and out of both those marinas.

Thanks. I thought that might be the case.

 

[Greg2]

Thanks for the suggestions. On the south coast this weekend looking at various options.

Brokers have been very friendly and helpful with one exception - can only offer one specific slot to look at three boats (two new) all weekend (which doesn’t work with the overall schedule). Understand that if they are a busy ‘one man band’ at the weekend but my wife says he wasn’t too helpful on the phone and the explanation that we have sold and are seriously looking didn’t seem to spark much interest in finding a work around. She felt like she was ‘pulling teeth’. Maybe selling lots of boats so doesn’t need to try too hard

 

[DuncanHall]

You could look at a Moody as plenty of 40 plus footers around

I have a Moody 42 with 2 main cabins + 1 passage. I have no difficulty handling single handed. Draft is 1.8 although there are some shoal draft models at 1.5m.

 

[ashtead]

Thanks for the suggestions. On the south coast this weekend looking at various options.

Brokers have been very friendly and helpful with one exception - can only offer one specific slot to look at three boats (two new) all weekend (which doesn’t work with the overall schedule). Understand that if they are a busy ‘one man band’ at the weekend but my wife says he wasn’t too helpful on the phone and the explanation that we have sold and are seriously looking didn’t seem to spark much interest in finding a work around. She felt like she was ‘pulling teeth’. Maybe selling lots of boats so doesn’t need to try too hard

Good luck with your search - yes the attitude of some brokers given they are salesmen and presumably have undergone usual training for role is sometimes perhaps not of the standard one would expect as a seller but if they are selling new versions you would expect more engagement. Maybe they are all off in the halls in Germany enjoying the beer though this weekend so short staffed in U.K.
Some that said are very good and if you are at SBS you sometimes on a quiet day meet some of the non sales staff at the dealer. I was very impressed at last show with one of the technical guys on a larger Hanse. With a lot of the brokers or dealers it all turns on which team member you get though and of course some brands seem confusingly to have different dealers with geographical patches .

 

[Greg2]

Well not the best of weather today, a bit wet and windy but not a bad day and we looked at varying options.

Island Packet SP Cruiser 41 (2010) - a proper little ship that packs a lot in. Good build quality and overall I liked it - the model but not necessarily this one. Very little use so some issues with one or two doors and sliding doors swollen/warped, what looked to be a bad dose of diesel bug and who knows on the engine internals (and asking top dollar). Pilot house perhaps a little snug with several people onboard and no option to sleep more than 4. Mrs G not quite so sure but reflecting on it. Obviously a compromise on sailing performance with the hull shape (round bilge with shallow “full-foil” keel) and smaller rig but to my mind a boat that offers the ability to do a bit of sailing, get into shallow harbours/marinas and with the mast unstepped do the canals down to the Med and all in the warm/dry. In fact with the mast off it is effectively a motorboat, which is exactly what IP did for a short time enforce they went bust. Not a boat for sailing purists though I suspect and wouldn’t give us that outside sailing experience that I think we would enjoy

Jeanneau Sun Oddysey 42 DS (2006) - very spacious cockpit and saloon and an absolutely huge double berth in the aft cabin. Deep draught fin keel and Yanmar 56hp engine, which I guess is plenty? Have seen some advertised with an upgraded 75hp engine. Does that make a big difference on a yacht? I understand that sailing performance would be okay on this and has twin helms. Is there a big benfit here or is a single central helm just fine? A friend bought one a few years back and always liked it so probably on the shortlist.

Feeling 39 (2001) - single central helm in a fairly spacious cockpit (but not as broad beamed at the stern as the Jeanneau). Cockpit well-sheltered behind deep cabin top. Three cabins and a linear galley - think we prefer L-shaped by the saloon steps. Lift keel so huge bonus in terms of access to shallow places and ability to dry out (not that I think we would want to do that too often). In reasonable condition so could be an option.

Beneteau Oceanis 37 (2009) - three cabin version so plenty of room to accommodate guests. Smallish heads/shower but overall down below we liked it - had a nice feel with darker wood but plenty of light. Cockpit smaller than the Feeling and Jeanneau but perfectly adequate. Spray hood a little low so working lines would be a pain for me. Overall seemed like a nice package and talking with another Broker later in the day he said that they sail very well. Deep draught on this one but shoal was an option. Understand the two cabin version gives a slightly larger heads/shower. Seems like a reasonable option at £76k asking. Mrs G quite taken with it.

Feeling 36 (2003) - viewed on spec after seeing it in Borkerage window. A little too dark for our liking down below so not for us. Fin keel but still had the lifting keel box in the saloon taking up space!

Overall a useful day and given us something to think about. Three more to look at tomorrow

 

[ashtead]

I don't know a lot about the jeaneau but we looked at these before buying our Moody so probably our second choice boat I suspect you need to ask owners but 56hp seems loads on a 42 or so boat . We have just 40 on a 41 and never saw the need to buy the larger unit. It might use more fuel slightly per hour at 75 but I guess it's marginal . No doubt for resale the 75 might attract some but you might also want to consider the prop as well . I had this feeling there might be a beneteau for sale at Gosport marina if brand is of interest . I guess your viewed 42 has a bowthruster fitted?
That IP seems a lovely idea but might have a niche following ?
Weather should improve tomorrow hopeful according to mr keeling post.

 

[lpdsn]

... and has twin helms. Is there a big benfit here or is a single central helm just fine?

I've twin helms on a 43 footer. I guess the idea of a walk through stern for Med mooring was one of the thoughts in the designers mind. I'd normally, but not always helm from the windward helm and nip down to the leeward one to check under the sail, which works pretty well. I've also got twin throttle controls (for a single engine) so can pick my side when berthing.

Another little considered advantage is that there are two quadrants so quite a bit of redundancy in the steering system, so the other wheel is my emergency steering rather than an emergency tiller that doesn't work. However most boats with twin wheels have just one double quadrant, so a potential single point of failure there just like on a single-wheeled boat.

 

[ashtead]

Other advantage of twin helms depending on where the plotter is mounted is you can easily give the helm on other side to a co helm while you enter waypoints or whatever. This is our first boat with twin heels but distinct advantages in terms of access but as indicated without the advantage of dual throttles your crew needs to call you into a berth if on the non throttle side although of course you can reverse in if you prefer to berth pontoon side close but as it were. It also makes it so much easier to adjust lines and get to main halliard winch etc . If you have a cockpit tent serves to increase space for partying in moderate weather as provides more seating . Now clearly there are those out there with single wheel centre cockpit who will tell you they can fit dozens in but personally the space given by double wheels seems a real plus.

 

[Greg2]

Okay, so engine size on the 42 DS is probably alright. Agree that the IP Cruiser is probably a niche thing but if we went that way it would be on the basis that it is the ‘forever’ boat.

Interesting points about the twin helm thing and clearly some benefit if they are independent systems with twin throttles. Not sure but suspect the 42 DS doesn’t have that but can check.

Mrs G has done some research online and the Bennie 37 would seem to be well rigged for easy and effective sailing on all points of wind. Described as a sailors boat and great for wind in your face sailing ‘by the seat of your pants’. Like the sound of that....anyone got experience of this model?