Moving from Brighton to the Med - we're off!

[jimmy_the_builder]

You're going to be doing a lot more anchoring in the Med than the UK, typically in depths from 4m to 20m so 30m of chain is going to be nowhere near enough. Also, typically, boat manufacturers always fit the minimum size anchor they can get away with. On a 47 footer, you should really have 60-70m of chain (largest size that fits your windlass) plus, say, a 25kg anchor or bigger (Delta seems to work well in the Med). Certainly when you're anchoring overnight as you will do if you want to make the best of Med boating, you don't want to be lying awake wondering whether your anchor is going to hold!

Hi Mike

The T40 is fitted with 8mm chain and a 10kg Delta as standard. I'd already decided to increase the amount of anchor chain that I carry (specifically for Villefranche!) but are you saying that I ought to go up a size with the anchor as well? Will a 16kg really make that much more difference over a 10kg? (Can't go any bigger that 16kg without changing chain size and presumably therefore also windlass). Boat is 41' long and weighs c.8t.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hi Mike

The T40 is fitted with 8mm chain and a 10kg Delta as standard. I'd already decided to increase the amount of anchor chain that I carry (specifically for Villefranche!) but are you saying that I ought to go up a size with the anchor as well? Will a 16kg really make that much more difference over a 10kg? (Can't go any bigger that 16kg without changing chain size and presumably therefore also windlass). Boat is 41' long and weighs c.8t.

Cheers
Jimmy

Jimmy, on my last 3 Med boats, I've done 2 things. First changed the anchor to the max size Delta I can get in the existing bow roller; most chandlers will allow you to borrow an anchor and offer it up to check that it fits snugly and doesn't clout the bow. Second, changed the chain to 75m of the max size that the windlass will take. A bigger anchor, new chain and a replacement gypsy for the windlass should cost a few hundred quid which, in the context of what you're spending to upgrade your boat, isn't a lot. The Delta anchor seems to work well in the Med because its sharp enough to cut through the weed that you find in many anchorages, unlike a Bruce which I've found tends to drag over the top of the weed (although the Bruce is excellent once it does get a bite). Whatever anchor you have, the heavier it is, the better chance it has of digging itself into the seabed. Most of the time that doesn't matter because the weight and catenary effect of the chain itself will be enough to hold the boat but you'll be glad of a decent anchor when you're anchored overnight and the wind unexpectedly blows up
In your case, I would definitely upgrade the Delta to 16kg, if it fits. 8mm chain sounds OK for a 40 footer so I would probably stick with that but ensure you've got at least 60m length. The depths between Les Lerins are v shallow so chain length doesn't matter but there are other anchorages such as off La Theoule right outside La Rague (good shelter in a mistral) where you'll probably have to drop your hook in 15-20m of water so you need a decent length of chain

 

[Jonmendez]

Anchor upgrade

I would also go for a bigger Anchor, if it will fit, the deciding factor is usually how much room is there left on the bow before the winch, I would not change the chain size but add another 30m, there are some really good joiners in the chandlers. Or even add 60m of 12mm three core, saves a load of weight and the winch will pull it up no issue if you have a good splice.

 

[MRC]

Good luck with the move. We are doing teh same this year so if you see us at anchor in a bay by all means please say hello but dont stop as we wont have a clue where we are either....


I was under the impression it is not advisable to add extra lengh of chain, Its better to replace with whole new lengh, use teh old 30M and existing anchor as a kedge? Store it in teh garage on a T40?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I was under the impression it is not advisable to add extra lengh of chain, Its better to replace with whole new lengh

Yep, I've been told that as well, praps because it is calibrated chain? Either way, my plan was simply to find out how much I have got (this Thursday, hopefully) and then just buy a replacement length, job done. My T40 has the D6's, which are quite heavy and naturally the boat is a bit bow high, so a little extra weight in the anchor locker isn't going to hurt.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jfm]

Jimmy i would think that upgrading 10 to 16kg Delta is worth it if it will fit. I don't think thickening the chain does much (as you know I don't subscribe to the theory "it's the chain not the anchor that holds the boat" becuase it's bollox) but of course if you can do it easily then fine. You will as others have said need to be able to anchor in 20m (eg in Theoule as Deleted User said, on east side cap ferrat when it's busy, in Girolata, in bay of St Tropez, and in some of the berths in Monaco

 

[Powersalt]

Powersalt I've read your posts on this thread and fear you're doing yourself no favours by being glass half empty. You say "the advantage of someone who looks after it all the time so I know its safe" but do you think that can't be done in France?!! You go to all the trouble of doing the flight but you get off the plane 45 mins early! South of France would be 45 minutes longer door-to-boat journey for you than Jersey (Nice airport is even faster to get through than St Helier - I know both very well)

Yes you could be right but I was refering to my cousins boat ( aquastar 48) kept in Nice harbour and broken into twice now, once when we just went ashore to get something from the car.

Love where I am at the moment but got really fed up with the weather last year, so reading these posts with great interest. I also think that the flight to Nice is cheaper than what I pay at the moment, it might just be the mooring costs change

 

[jfm]

Yes you could be right but I was refering to my cousins boat ( aquastar 48) kept in Nice harbour and broken into twice now, once when we just went ashore to get something from the car.

Love where I am at the moment but got really fed up with the weather last year, so reading these posts with great interest. I also think that the flight to Nice is cheaper than what I pay at the moment, it might just be the mooring costs change

Interesting to hear that about Nice. I've been in Antibes and Golfe Juan since 2002 and never had any crime nor have any of my neighbours so far as I know. Yes, the flight costs to Nice wouldn't be any dearer

 

[ernie_madoff]

MRC, can you remember how much chain is on OT? S.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I don't think thickening the chain does much (as you know I don't subscribe to the theory "it's the chain not the anchor that holds the boat" becuase it's bollox)

Its not bollox. Because I'm an anorak, I often snorkel out to check how my anchor is lying and more often than not its lying on its side on top of the seabed even if I've made an effort to snub it. So what's holding the boat? Its simply the drag of the chain and the anchor on the seabed. The chain can do that because the catenary effect of the chain allows most of it to sit on the seabed, even in quite fresh winds. It is surprising to see how little the chain moves on the seabed even when the boat is shearing about above. The catenary effect of a chain helps in 2 other ways as well. First it helps to keep the pulling force on the anchor as horizontal as possible which maximises the holding power of the anchor and second, it absorbs shock loads on the chain from the boat shearing. Of course, the heavier the chain, the greater the catenary effect
All this used to be well demonstrated at LIBS until a couple of years ago by Yachting Monthly or Yachting World (can't remember which) who used to have an anchoring demonstration in which they added weights to the chain in order to increase it's catenary effect and measured the resulting increase in anchor holding power

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Jimmy i would think that upgrading 10 to 16kg Delta is worth it if it will fit.

Hmm. I think it might not fit. This is an old phone pic of the current 10kg anchor. The end of the shaft (terminology?) is right at the rear roller. The 16kg is about 120mm longer; not all of that will be in the shaft but it still won't fit - unless I do something bodgy like create my very own 13kg custom delta by cutting the shaft down on a 16kg. I guess the issue then is whether or not there's enough lever arm in the truncated shaft for successful retrieval.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[MRC]

MRC, can you remember how much chain is on OT? S.

Sent you PM

 

[Hurricane]

I don't subscribe to the theory "it's the chain not the anchor that holds the boat" becuase it's bollox) but of course if you can do it easily then fine

It would be interesting to hear why you think that it is the anchor rather than the chain that holds the boat.

Like Deleted User, I often snorkle out to the anchor to see how it lays.
After a bit of drifting around, the chain "snakes" around and the load on the actual anchor is very minimal - IMO

I will always put as much chain out as I can - at least for overnight.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hmm. I think it might not fit. This is an old phone pic of the current 10kg anchor. The end of the shaft (terminology?) is right at the rear roller. The 16kg is about 120mm longer; not all of that will be in the shaft but it still won't fit - unless I do something bodgy like create my very own 13kg custom delta by cutting the shaft down on a 16kg. I guess the issue then is whether or not there's enough lever arm in the truncated shaft for successful retrieval.

The critical dimension is from the point at which the anchor sits in the bow roller to the eye and the difference between the 10kg and 16kg is actually 88mm (614-526mm) according to the specs on the Lewmar website http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=7446&lid=23564. So, in effect the end of the 16kg shank would be 88mm further in than the 10kg shank and looking at your pic, I think that fits but, as I say, offer it up first. There seems to be plenty of space for the pointy bit at the bow as well. In fact, I'd say that your bow roller was designed to take the 16kg model rather than the 10kg you've got but maybe I'm wrong on that!

 

[jfm]

Jimmy
I must say i agree with Deleted User that it looks like the 16kg will fit on there. You have the required 88mm. The end of the chain will be say 3-5mm higher and that might make the chain rub the anchor locker lid at the U cut-out, but you can soon fix that by removing some GRP. It would be nice if shop would lend one to you for a try. FL Southampton might have one on that sq42 parked outside? Actually FL essex have a load (well, about 10) of new Deltas 10-20kgers on the left inside the Fairline shed, bottom shelf, halfway along. These are ones taken off stock boats where owner has requested s/s. I've always got my spare/kedgy Deltas from this pile, all brand new, and beer money rather than chandler price. Ask if James or Nick can bring one to Swanick on their weekly visit

We should do the "Does the anchor or the chain hold the boat?" on another thread else it will go very OT and hijack this which is better kept as a pure story about moving to France, imho

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Jimmy
I must say i agree with Deleted User that it looks like the 16kg will fit on there. You have the required 88mm. The end of the chain will be say 3-5mm higher and that might make the chain rub the anchor locker lid at the U cut-out, but you can soon fix that by removing some GRP.

How is the anchor supposed to be rigged through the rear roller then? A previous owner of my boat had tried running the chain over the roller, and when you launched the anchor, the impact of the chain on the edge of the anchor locker was a lot more than 3-5mm, it had worn away about 15mm (I guess because of the way the Delta launches). I re-rigged it the same as all the other T40's I'd seen - ie under the rear roller, and got the grp repaired.

If you try and route the chain this way with a bigger anchor it simply won't launch. If you're supposed to rig it over the rear roller - then what's the purpose of that roller?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Portofino]

Hi,am next door La Napoule, with a similar size boat
, like Mike f , I snorkel, in fact most blokes do,while the wife stands on the pulpit .He,s right it's the chain that holds , you will see ,d,ont buy anything yet .
50 m of 8 mm wil be fine @ all those locations
From a practiical point of view, on the main road in from the A8, you will find the following shops Cabesta really good value chandlery inc chain and links, paint fenders everything
Oppersite this across the road V Penta Cote d Azur - spares/ service items
Then a Lidl for provisions ,next to this a Bolangerie ( not a bakery a French comet) in here you will need to buy a french digibox for the Tv only € 20 or so.
Wind/ rain is rare between May -Oct, however, wife like " days off " Allways plenty to see/ do with a hire car. You do not need to go home like UK.
My previous base Humber estuary , So I,am not coming back,
Re size , a lot of time is actually spent out side in cockpit , it's more of an out door life , in the season ,
Speed and style are King , practicality less important in the SoF
There is allrealdy a. " vega" in La nap it's a beneteau 32 in red ,
I,ll look out for you @ Easter , and say hello.

 

[JKay]

SoF or the Humber? now let me see which one's best Fiiigghhttt !!!

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Hi,am next door La Napoule, with a similar size boat
, like Mike f , I snorkel, in fact most blokes do,while the wife stands on the pulpit .He,s right it's the chain that holds , you will see ,d,ont buy anything yet .
50 m of 8 mm wil be fine @ all those locations
From a practiical point of view, on the main road in from the A8, you will find the following shops Cabesta really good value chandlery inc chain and links, paint fenders everything
Oppersite this across the road V Penta Cote d Azur - spares/ service items
Then a Lidl for provisions ,next to this a Bolangerie ( not a bakery a French comet) in here you will need to buy a french digibox for the Tv only € 20 or so.
Wind/ rain is rare between May -Oct, however, wife like " days off " Allways plenty to see/ do with a hire car. You do not need to go home like UK.

Thanks for this, all useful practical stuff. I'm planning to bring a scooter down with me for the "days off" so that we can explore inland a bit as well, although in fairness this isn't going to be fantastically useful if it's raining.

I,ll look out for you @ Easter , and say hello.

Excellent, come on over, there's always beer available (or if I get my act together, some limes in the fruit bowl...).

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[jfm]

How is the anchor supposed to be rigged through the rear roller then? A previous owner of my boat had tried running the chain over the roller, and when you launched the anchor, the impact of the chain on the edge of the anchor locker was a lot more than 3-5mm, it had worn away about 15mm (I guess because of the way the Delta launches). I re-rigged it the same as all the other T40's I'd seen - ie under the rear roller, and got the grp repaired.

If you try and route the chain this way with a bigger anchor it simply won't launch. If you're supposed to rig it over the rear roller - then what's the purpose of that roller?

Cheers
Jimmy

Ah sorry I didn't spot that roller. You're right, the chain goes under it. That puts kibosh on 16kg, dang. Only way to do 16kg is extend the cheeks of the anchor tray aftwards by 90mm, so moving the roller back that far, which looks do-able but is a much bigger job obviously.

Anyway I'm outvoted (not that I'll be changing my mind!) by folks who say you dont need an anchor becuase the chain holds the boat so your 10kg will be fine (or nothing all at all will be fine if I'm following Portofino correctly!). But just on that jimmy, all these "I've snorkelled" people are not snorkelling in storms. At the point your anchor is about to let go in 35kts of wind the chain (whether 8mm or upgraded to 10mm) will be virtually straight with only a tiny catenary effect and the chain will have long since given up contributing to the hold and it will be only the anchor that holds you, or not. Yeah sure the chain can hold you for the most part in a few knots of wind on a lazy summer afternoon but that's neither here nor there. Fact is there is no significant catenary (and therefore no significant contribution by the chain weight) at the point of anchor letting go