Moonfleet Sailing - Cruise from Hell

[nct1]

Well I guess we will have to disagree about the single line instructions whilst in rough weather and in the world's busiest shipping lane, to me in this situation it's safer to keep it simple.

If the student had done their theory, then for the most part they should have an idea of the factors involved, and I do not see why the student could not simply ask why they did some after acting on it, this is an excellent way to feed back to the instructor where you did not understand something.

It's interesting you say that respect has to be earned, so if a captain of a ferry asks you to do something e.g. move away from the car deck, unless the captain had earned your respect you would not follow the instruction ?

CG was on a vessle underway, the first duty of this skipper was the safety of those on board, followed by the training followed by the enjoyment of those present.

 

[curve]

[ QUOTE ]


Wey beyond the call of duty, with his food

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not so sure. One of the most important things you can do as skipper on a boat is to make sure that you're crew are well-fed and cared for. If not, discontempt starts to bew and mutiny rears its ugly head.

If I am paying money to join a sailing cruise I don't expect things to always run smoothly but I do expect to be looked after by the skipper and the company in question. I have just recently returned from a sail with Ondeck and they were faultless in the way that they dealt with my initial enquiry, the way I was greeted at the marina and onboard the ship, the way the skipper and crew made sure the crew were happy and having a great time. It all smacked of professionalism and I felt safe and well-looked after.

I wonder if sailing schools would like to have some mystery sailors giving them proper feedback in the same way as they have mystery shoppers going into stores.

 

[whipper_snapper]

Or, do you think 3 days aboard without any teaching acceptable?
No it would not be (but I don't know how it could be achieved unless the pupil lay in his bunk with a paper bag over his head!)

Or, do you think an instructor that gives his pupils such commitment that 'hes on holiday' Ok?
No

Or, Doing a wine run part the contract he has with the school?
No

...and you have to accept, as much as they want to, some people should never be teachers.
I do.

But we don't know what happened, I have seen totally different perceptions of the same week. And yes, I did make assumptions based on someone posting about lifejackets frayed at the edges and drinking water from the tanks.

 

[mollyoxford]

Many people have asked Carol did she take it up with the School afterwards. I would like to ask - did she take it up with the instructor at the time? That could possibly have been more immediately effective.

I haven't done a lot of commercial work, but I did have one (not teaching) weekend where none of the crew indicated any discontent to me at the time but apparently all complained afterwards. If they had spoken to me at the time of their concerns and expectations then perhaps it could all have gone much better. I thought I had managed to ask them the right things/do the right stuff - but clearly I hadn't.

I have also been on the other end, back when I started out - Boat was run down and food was poor/limited. Instructor could sail, no doubt about it, but people skills were totally lacking. I played "dumb blonde" and let the 3 other guys quietly seethe. We voted with our feet and didn't go there again. The next school/instructor we went with was fabulous!!!

On the food front, budgets vary from school to school. The difference between £1.65/person/day and £6.50/person/day can be easily imagined!!! Also it is often shopped for by the skipper - and people vary in what they consider adequate in content, quality and in quantity. I had trips where every bit got scoffed and others where lots was left over - same amount of people and same amount of food. I bought loads of fresh stuff (and always tried for at least bacon butties!) - but some of the skippers were young blokes in their 20's and not really gourmets...

 

[colingr]

On our dazed kipper course we were given enough to get us started then 2 of us were elected food buyers so we could buy what we wanted, but gived a budget which we could top up if we all wanted to.

We also took turns cooking and washing up, and cleaning the heads etc so we really got used to living aboard.

Surely a lack of bottled water is easiliy remedied, once tied up in France bugger off to the shops and buy some. Ditto food.

Living on board a yacht is going to be a bit basic but that is part of the fun, also hitting some rough stuff is part of being at sea. Get used to it.

You can't expect cruise ship comforts on anything but a cruise ship.

We ate and drank well, worked hard and had a great time. Came back with a healthy tan / wind burn, bruises and a good respect for the sea and the boat.

Can't remember the skipper but he was brill and took no nonsense. Having said that we were working well as a crew by the end of the week.

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
It's interesting you say that respect has to be earned, so if a captain of a ferry asks you to do something e.g. move away from the car deck, unless the captain had earned your respect you would not follow the instruction ?

[/ QUOTE ]

If a skipper of a vessel tells me to do something with no explanation (unless it was bleedin obvious) I would comply, but he wouldn't earn any respect from it....

 

[jordanbasset]

Hi I have read this post and the replies with interest, on balance I think the origianl poster has been treated a little harshly by some. Perhaps some parts of the original post contributed to this but there were others that did deserve answers -

"On the joining instructions it mentioned to meet at 8pm for an evening meal in the yacht club. Unfortunately the sailing school had failed to warn us that there would be no catering facilities available. Luckily we were able to visit a local fish & chip shop prior the others arriving who were not so fortunate."

If they were told this I would also assume I would be given a meal -

"The skipper arrived late."

- a personal issue with me, I prefer to be an hour early than one minute late. We do not know how late but not a good impresion.

"He duly issued the wet weather gear that had seen a lot better days. Once onboard – we were issued with life jackets – many of which had mould stains on and were frayed around the edges. ( He did mention that they had been tested within the last 12 months but did not produce evidence of this)."

- do not see any problems with this

"We were given a boat brief and told not to break the head door lock as it cost £60 for a replacement (we heard this on numerous occasions throughout the week) and how not to slam the overhead storage doors. "

- seems failrly reasonable to me.

"First morning breakfast – toast and cereal – nowhere in sight was there any traditional English breakfast. We should have known from this that it was going to be a week of very poor quality food. There was no fresh fruit or vegetable on offer. All the food was frozen or tinned. At least Tesco’s home label did well that week as we certainly did not. There wasn’t even any water on offer except water out of the tank. Even the lonely bag of bite sized chocolate was hidden away." - no problems here

" The food was rationed, we were served out of date food and even mouldy bread!. "

when you are wet, tired, you need a good meal, I would not find this situation acceptable

"My partner was due to undergo his RYA Competent Crew course. After three days of being on board, I asked the skipper/instructor when the course was going to start. Every bit of information was extracted rather than being taught. It was probably the worse instruction I have ever seen."

If this happened it would be appalling and just not acceptable. Any good instructor should be checking the student understands things. Of course you cannot do that in an emergency, but if the emergency lasted for 3 days then they really did have a problem.

"As you can imagine, the atmosphere was quite difficult on board. We felt as though we were an uninvited guest rather than a paying customer. The skipper told us he was on holiday – yet we paid good money for our holiday which he seemed to forget. The comfort and safety of the guests were not his priority. "

Not sure it should be desribed as a holiday by the guests, but am absolutely certain the skipper should not have said he was on holiday

"The return journey across the channel was interesting. The other yachts left early in order to complete the crossing as the weather was due to worsen. Our skipper didn’t change any plans to suit the weather conditions. Maybe it was because he didn’t want to miss out on his usual duty free wine. Hence, the last four hours of our crossing were in rough conditions."

If it was to get his duty free this was unnaceptable

It may be a mixture of unrealistic expectations but there do appear to be genuine grievances as well. I do agree with other posters that it would be nice to know if the poster had addressed their concerns with the instructor or company and what reply they got

 

[pappaecho]

If the joining instructions said to meet a 8pm for a meal in the yacht club, and the club was closed then clearly the joining instructions were plain wrong, which means that as the correspondant said "The company were not customer focused"

 

[BlueSkyNick]

i am not disagreeing with anybody on this point

 

[tom52]

I have little sympathy for the original poster, who seems to have mistaken a sailing instruction course for a floating Thomsons hotel holiday.
However describing the scruffy council estate pub at Cobbs Quay as a yacht club is certain to start the course on a disappointing note.

 

[Talulah]

I'm afraid I'm with the original poster.
If you set expectations and fail to deliver then customers are going to find holes in everything else.
It's a service industry and all that.
However what suits some people doesn't suit others but a good instructor can usually paper over the cracks and make all the difference.
There are quite a few instructors on this forum and I'm sure most have heard stories about one school or another.
What's important is that a school responds to feedback and adjusts accordingly.
Here are some examples I've come across using the complaints from the original post:
Waterproofs:
Pupils First weekend: “These waterproofs are damp, mouldy, leak and not fit for purpose.”
Instructor “Agree. Everyone complain to the school and expect results.” (They really were bad. No point trying to defend the impossible.)
School “New waterproofs purchased. Will be onboard next weekend”
One pupil’s response: “Great, can you check they don’t leak.”
When I purchased waterproofs for my own school I purchased Musto gear. Whilst cost is a factor customers are buying into an image and having the correct gear is part of that.
Boat:
Pupil s: “This boat really isn’t that great.” (Bavaria 36 – very worn out)
Instructor “Whilst the boat is not a luxury yacht, it is a great boat for learning on and very similar to what you are likely to charter. It’s excellent for training and because it’s had a bit of wear is probably a good thing.” (School contacted by instructor listing worn out items that should be replaced on grounds of safety and those items that are nice to replace.) School wants to buy a replacement boat (second hand) but profit on courses are restrictive. Whilst the boat is imho ‘shagged’ it was presented clean and tidy
Food:
I have found this to be a big source of complaints and feedback on this subject to the school in question has led to a huge improvement. The cost of the courses have gone up but it’s better to double or triple the food budget and have returning customers. I have come across one school supplying out of date food and would not go there myself.
I know of another school were the food was so bad that instructors have been known to chuck most of it out. I have been a customer on a boat where the food is really bad and it’s a false economy. For a similar budget you buy higher quality food but less of it.
Instructors:
I have been called in at the last minute on more than one occasion to replace an instructor where the instructor has ‘lost it’ with a pupil or the pupils have on mass told the school that they are not going back on board with the same instructor the following weekend.
The cause of these have been varied ranging from new, inexperienced instructors, those who have simply done too many courses and become burnt out or those who have their own agenda and the course is secondary.
Not all instructors will be suited to all types of pupils. A group of customers from the City expect to be spoken to in a different way to a group of squaddies. A course dominated by women is very different to a course with only one woman. A course with similar ages can be very different to a course of varied ages. Teaching styles vary and it’s rare for an instructor to see different styles and learn new techniques.
Feedback
In the schools I have worked in I have found the feedback forms to be treated seriously and acted upon. There is one school I would not work for and that’s because I don’t like their attitude to instructors although I understand their feedback is good.
In my opinion the most important things in making a course a success in descending order are:
1. The instructor
2. The other people on board
3. Food/The boat
4. The school
5. Weather

I would add that most schools strive to offer a good experience and professional service. It is rare to find things going downhill and in those cases it may be a symptom of a bigger problem.

As an instructor I have met students who could not be satisfied, those that have spoilt it for others, and those who are a ‘princess’. Thankfully, most students want to be there and enjoy themselves.

 

[Oliveoyl]

" Not all instructors will be suited to all types of pupils. A group of customers from the City expect to be spoken to in a different way to a group of squaddies. A course dominated by women is very different to a course with only one woman. A course with similar ages can be very different to a course of varied ages. Teaching styles vary and it’s rare for an instructor to see different styles and learn new techniques. "

I did my dazed kipper this spring in Greece, and before signing up enquired about age (am mid geriatric), instructor people skills ( am used to sailing with an authoritarian skipper), and was even asked if an all girls week, with lady instructor, would be of interest. (I declined)
I did my homework, as did the school, and the resulting week was fantastic: Mark the instructor was sooo patient, my crewmates (1 Norwegian, 1 Russian, both middle aged males) were adorable, the food (b'fast and lunch only, as explained in joining instructions - we dined out every night) was fresher than fresh - we don't keep such high standards on our own boat.
Wasn't necessarily cheap, but I'd saved hard to do it, and was very happy to have made the 100% right choice for me

 

[Talulah]

In retrospect, whilst I listed 'the school' as number 4 in the list it is because of their success in items 1,2 & 3 that perhaps I should move them to the top.

 

[hannahjames]

I read this thread with great interest as we are about to do our competent crew in 2 weeks time. We (one 40-something, two 30-somethings and my 12yr old son) have bought the books, DVD's for ropework, our own charts to practice from our navigation books, our own oilies and deck vests (at great cost) We researched all of the sailing schools in the area and upon choosing the one we wanted we booked.We have spoken to both the owner of the sailing school and our skipper on several occaisions about our expectaions and everyone's dietry requirements. Having done all of this, I am sure the course (7 days in total) will still be full of highs and lows and surprises of all kinds..most of all the weather. We are under no allusion that July will guarantee us good weather...quite the opposite I am told infact.
I am sure we will return with a completely different view than the OP'er but feel we have done a fair bit of reading up etc. Incidently the CC course is advertised for the compete beginner (no previous knowledge!!!!) Some may interpret this as not having to do any reading up before hand. We only started because we have an insatiable thirst to learn!!

 

[Heckler]

Happy Shopper is basic tinned and dry products generally, so we say, using your analogy, "Oh lets go and have a tin of heinz baked beans on toast to night" I think not, most normal people say "Oh lets have beans on toast tonight"
Not all of us go to M&S for ready meals and I doubt very much whether any other charterers do. (by the way, read the financials, M&S down because the high priced food is being shunned by people!)
All foods start with basics and the ingenuity and skill of the chef can transform the lowliest of ingredients into a meal fit for a king. Happy Shopper can provide a good reasonable priced staple to be used as a base for something nice!

 

[Talulah]

[ QUOTE ]
Happy Shopper is basic tinned and dry products generally, so we say, using your analogy, "Oh lets go and have a tin of heinz baked beans on toast to night" I think not, most normal people say "Oh lets have beans on toast tonight"
Not all of us go to M&S for ready meals and I doubt very much whether any other charterers do. (by the way, read the financials, M&S down because the high priced food is being shunned by people!)
All foods start with basics and the ingenuity and skill of the chef can transform the lowliest of ingredients into a meal fit for a king. Happy Shopper can provide a good reasonable priced staple to be used as a base for something nice!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you. Everybody knows beans means Heinz.

 

[Heckler]

Prob is of course that we have had only one side of the story, from what others have picked up and also we can see that the lady is not that enamoured of the company and so we can deduce from that that perhaps what she writes is perhaps slightly biased. Going on from there how can we make a judgement on the company?

 

[capnsensible]

Of course there are, inevitably, some fantastic instructors around, witty, charming and erudite in all company. Highly skilled, passionate about passing on their undoubted masterful ability plus good looking too. Unfortunately, they are drastically underpaid and live in Lanzarote. Sigh.

 

[webcraft]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a service industry and all that.

[/ QUOTE ] Bo**ocks . . . it was a sailing course . . .

- W

 

[curve]

I warrant its six of one and half a dozen of the other. I would love to hear from the sailing school but I guess we never will.

But when it comes to Happy Shopper/Lidl/Tesco own brand food - my only option is to starve rather than eat it.