MMSI Directory

[Observer]

RYA where are you?

If the RYA is supporting this proposal then would somebody from the RYA please take the trouble to explain, on this forum, the reasons for such support.

I know these boards are monitored by the RYA so I hope to see a formal RYA response in the near future.

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[DeeGee]

It seems to me that the major response here was pretty indefinite as far as a directory is concerned. Sort of 'who cares?'. MM has a reason to be p'd at being asked to provide something he doesn't see any point in.

What is interesting is the underlying concern about DSC, Ch16 and the future. I agree with Brendan's points re: the bloody big ship pointing at me. He is unlikely today to be listening on Ch16, and he certainly won't tomorrow. He is going to wait for the DSC to give it's unmistakable warble before he springs to attention. But how do I know how to call him? A directory of any sort is not going to help - it is only when the big bugger is on its way away from the wreckage that we shall be able to read the name.

I am going to go on the assumption that big ships do not deviate, do not use their radar and I have no way of communicating with them. My only chance lies with radar, and really KNOWing how to use it, properly.

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[DeeGee]

Has this point been made elsewhere "Surely this already exists in the MARS database?". Duplication only leads to inconsistencies.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Practicalities

I know it is! I feel like I'm battering my head against a brick wall.

Lets put this in really, really simple terms. Lots and lots and lots of people with old NO DSC radios. No intention of replacing them with DSC (until old one breaks).

Ships not monitoring on Ch16 anymore. How do you call them to let them know they are about to run you down. You do realise you can't actually use voice messages on Ch70 don't you?

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Practicalities

Brendan,
I am a brick wall built here just for you to trip over. Sorry!
Seriously I do realise I can't make voice calls on 70. I do have a dsc radio. I never really thought we'd be calling MV Ooflungdung just about to run us down in the Dover Straights by looking up their number in a directory. When ships might run you down you can't usually see their name anyway. I seem to remember HMCG was disparaging of Ch 16 calls in situations where colregs applied anyway, on account of the call could just confuse matters more. I don't know what to say about all the people who won't buy DSC radios - the MCA and the Coastguard have been saying for years if you don't buy a DSC radio you won't be able to rely on a listening watch on 16. If people choose not to pay attention to the advice that's their affair. I believe the fall back for voice messages to unknown and unnamed ships is 13, bridge to bridge, but I agree it's probably wishful thinking to expect ships to monitor more than the minimum.

apropos of deciphering names

Innocent girl to matelot, 'Why have you got HMS written on there?'
'You'll see. Later it says Hammersmith.'

ps any more cheek and I'll relay your position to Dom

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[Jacket]

Re: Practicalities

Its irrelevant whether you've got DSC or not, its only any good if you know the name of the ship you're calling up. In a potential collision situation you won't.

And its pointless saying that VHF is no use in collision avoidance. Of course it can help. If a ships bearing down on you, it may be the only way to get their attention. With only one watchkeeper, there are going to be times when he's not looking around (because he's filling in the log etc.) So flares are no good for attracting his attention.

However, if he's got CH16 on, and hears a call saying "bloody big ship thats about to sink me" its likely to get his attention and make him have a look around in case the message is aimed at him.

Yes, with DSC you could use an "all ships" call on CH70, and then send out a voice message once you've got their attention, but it all takes time- something you haven't got in an emergency.

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[duncan]

Re: Practicalities

**** the VHF - send of a flare; it's what you carry them for!

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[TheBoatman]

Mike
I would have to vote NO for this one.
I can't see the point, if for instance I could get close enough to read the vessels name and then looked it up in the directory I would have more than one name to chose from.
I just did a search on the name "twister" and got 22 "twisters" to chose from. How the hell do I know which one I need?
Maybe I'm being dim and missing the point.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Practicalities

If they can hit the tricolour despite patrol ships trying to get their attention, you reckon they're gonna see a flare. Could try putting one through their bridge, that might alert them.

You're missing the point, merchant ships are going DSC, but not all leisure boaters are. Even if DSC radio on board, the process is so bleedin long winded and cumbersome as to be ridiculous. Designed by committee. Probably a committee who had never been to sea in their lives!

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[babylocked]

Re: Practicalities

I can't believe (unfortunately I probably should) the RYA is pushing such a daft idea and that the MCA & RCA are listening to them.
Ignoring any of the emotive issues - on a purely practical level it will be a total waste of money.
It will cost 100’s of thousands of pounds to collate, validate and publish the directory.
However as someone pointed out only a paper version is any use on a boat and therefore out of date the moment it’s published. If it’s not international it’s worthless but if it is it’s huge and has thousands of duplicates in. Finally how can you index visual identifiers < and would focus on visual identification of the craft> – I’m struggling even to grasp the concept.


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[hlb]

"would focus on visual identification of the craft."

How you going to get a quick reference index for this one??

Raggy. Two sails and a stick. Loads of string. Colour, white.

Stink pot. White. Large, medium or small.



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Haydn

 

[Twister_Ken]

Or,

Big ship, dark hull, pale superstructure, doing 25 kts.

It would be more useful to have the MMSI painted in large numbers on both sides of the ship, and underneath the bridge windows (or lashed on a banner across the foremost container).


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[babylocked]

Re: Or,

"by jove I think he's got it"

Great idea - I commended it to the house.

Far too sensible to go anywhere through.

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[Jacket]

Re: Or,

Good idea. And as MMSI numbers are unique, couldn't we replace yachts sail numbers with their MMSI number, which is then displayed on the sail?

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[Twister_Ken]

And as Burgundy Ben

Already has girt big numbers on the side of his mobo, no reason that mobos shouldn't be similarly accoutered.

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[hlb]

Re: And as Burgundy Ben

Dont give them any bright ideas. Not sure I want anyone looking me up in a book!!

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Haydn

 

[duncan]

Re: Practicalities

I am going to risk seeming to be rude by suggesting you are the one missing the point - VHF has never been any use in collision situation for exactly this reason. If you are close enough to read the vessels name on the bows (through the rust) then by the time you start shouting on 16 when they might have been listening you were unlikely to have time to do anything constructive.
I understand that port operations channels will still be used and would have thought that they would prove to be of the most use in the future as they are now in Poole Harbour (14) and Southampton Water (12?) etc when commercials are involved.
and yes, I would proably aim the flare at the bridge too!

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[BrendanS]

Re: Practicalities

OK understand your points, but this is typical of what happens on threads, where things focus down and down on ever more minute details. Agreed ,hollering at someones bow when they are 5 metres away from hitting you is not a good idea.

What DSC is going to introduce is a level of complexity and difficulty that is ridiculous. At the moment, I can press a button on a mic, and hail any boat I know in the area as long as I know it's name, or can give position and course. Simple, easy, and can be accomplished in any circumstances, dark, wet cold, and even at speed in rough conditions. You know the type of thing, Phaeton, Phaeton, this is Iditarod, Iditarod, over...wait for response.

With DSC, I'm going to have to stop the boat, and start playing with buttons and menus, which I can't see being easy in rough conditions in a small boat..OK, being able to hit the red button in a Mayday situation is useful, as is the ability to see that someone has tried to contact you, but all in all, this is a system for designed for commercial users, not people in small boats.

Oh, and if I hadn't already programmed in your MMSI number, I'd be setting up my laptop with CD, or flicking through the 356 volume paper version??

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[duncan]

Re: Practicalities

agreed..............(but you started the collision tangent!)

So far I have mowed the lawns, trimmed the hedges and de;livered no3 son to a party - next weekend better be a good one on the water or else!

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[BrendanS]

Re: Practicalities

agreed..............(but you started the collision tangent!)

OK,but see what my original tongue in cheek post stated as below. I should learn to argue from the original point rather than allowing myself to be taken down side tracks where I never meant to go


So many points here I don't really know where to start.

Can't see many paying for such a directory. The only real use is to look up friends, club members, and other people you 'boat' with on a regular basis, so that you can pre program DSC set with known numbers.

If you want to contact someone in a hurry, not many people will have a computer on board, so internet and cd versions are out for the vast majority of leisure boaters on board.

Paper based version. I can just see it now. Rusty hulk bearing down on you, mid channel, name barely legible..

'pass me the 26" thick directory, and the last three years of 2" updates, I'll hail them. Now, should that be under the category of just rusting hulk just over 300m registered in Philippines, or is it a rapidly rusting hulk of over 250m registered in Antartica. Can anyone see the name? I can look it up in the alphabetical section? Starts with Sc. Damn, too late, they've already hit us.'

or the 'white grp boat of between 35' and 40' who is gesticulating at us 3m off our starboard bow... look up their MMSI number in the directory will you'

I think most people will want to grab a mic and talk to someone pretty rapidly under these conditions, which is what Ch16 currently allows you to do.I know that boat names etc don't really figure in these scenarios, but people usually manage to find someway to convey to the other vessel the circumstances....'vessels in the vicinity of <location>' etc.

Also understand that not all commercial vessels respond to Ch16 hails now


OK, but being sensible, would you really want to be powering up a laptop, or doing a paper based search of a vessels identity to even get the number of a boat in the marina you want to call, when the directory might hold numerous boats of the same name worldwide. At the moment you just call their name on Ch16 (which limits it to boats near you, so removing the numerous boats of the same name worldwide), then give tell them which channel you want to talk to them on.

really can't see this working

People take a few lines out of your post and argue the hell out of them. Next thing you know, you're arguing a line you never actually meant. Especially if Stu gets involved! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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