Mixing Fuel and Additive

[jaminb]

Hi poor stock level management finds me needing to refill my diesel tank today and my order of Diesel Fuel Complete does not arrive till friday so no opportunity to add the additive prior to filling. No boisterous sailing on the cards for at least a few weeks. Is there any point in adding the additive to the already full tank? Is there any other way of mixing post full tank that doesn't involve pumping out? A stick wont fit down the filler pipe!

Thanks

 

[Farmer Piles]

I cannot see an obvious solution other than bite the bullet and buy some more fuel treatment locally and mix with the fill.

 

[Boater Sam]

Poured in slowly it will mix and diffuse through the tank contents.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Leave it 5 litres short and mix the additive into a can when it arrives and add that, it should get it well diffused in no time and not just sat in the filler pipe.

 

[B27]

If you're going to use a lot of fuel soon, you don't need the additive.
If not, why completely fill the tank?
Maybe you're about to set off somewhere beyond the reach of fuel retailers?

 

[jaminb]

Thanks all. B27 I wish! Just trying to minimise trips to the fuel dock so like to brim the tank. I have emptied my spare 20l container over the winter feeding the heater so will go with snowbirds suggestion and hope 5 litres is enough to mix up enough until a sail.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Brownian motion will soon sort it.

 

[Refueler]

If tank is slack ... pout the crap in ... then fill up when you get your supply.

Really .... having worked additives for many years - I am amazed at the questions that come up ....

Of course when I ran additive work - we would inject to the ship loading lines while cargo was passing ... metered based on flow rate ... but we were talking 50,000MT or more .... with 5 to 15MT of additive.
During a difficult time when terminals banned injection - we used to lift the IBC's (1000ltr containers) onto ships deck and then with air pump - pump into the tanks .... the additive would permeate through.

In the old days - crew would be supervised to 'roll' 200ltr drums over openings in deck ! But later vessels with deck framing stopped that ...

Apologies ... re-reading OP's post .... I now understand that he has some strange Additive coming that I've never heard off .... "Diesel Fuel Complete"... and needs fill tank before it arrives .... Guilty of speed reading !!

Question to 'jaminb' : Interested to know what you expect this additive to do ? Seriously. Can you post what it is ??

 

[Sandy]

Can you not wait until the stuff arrives before filling up?

 

[Refueler]

Just out of interest ....

Is it this :

https://www.marine16.co.uk/product-page/diesel-fuel-complete

Oh well ....

 

[Sandy]

Just out of interest ....

Is it this :

https://www.marine16.co.uk/product-page/diesel-fuel-complete

Oh well ....

I do hate posts like this, of no use to man nor beast.

What do you mean by 'Oh well'?

Given your expertise I'd be interested to hear your wisdom.

@Zing is doing the same, spouts off a comment then fails to back it up with solid fact.

I'm feeling more grumpy than usual about posters this afternoon.

 

[Farmer Piles]

I just felt that with a tank that is probably an irregular shape and baffled you will not get great spread or mix unless you mix with a fill.

 

[Refueler]

I do hate posts like this, of no use to man nor beast.

What do you mean by 'Oh well'?

Given your expertise I'd be interested to hear your wisdom.

@Zing is doing the same, spouts off a comment then fails to back it up with solid fact.

I'm feeling more grumpy than usual about posters this afternoon.

I asked a question - or did you miss that part ?

My wisdom ? Each person to their own opinion ... and when I have given my info based on work - I have had odd replies that make me reluctant to say more.

Sorry I do not conform to your idea of posts ....

 

[Daydream believer]

As you have recently purchased this boat one assumes that you are topping up fuel that was filled by others & not under supervision by you. That being said i assume( ) that you had a delivery trip so used some fuel. If I had just purchased a new (well new to me yacht) I would want to clean the tank out & start from scratch. Thus the question of additive would be less important.
I am a little surprised that, with your experience, we have not seen mention of you doing that on the forum. Perhaps I missed it.
.
What you could do. If a hose will reach the tank via the filler pipe, is put a hose into the tank. Pour a small quantity of fuel, additive mix into the hose. Then get the dinghy pump & send a blast of air down the hose, thus ejecting the mix right in to the main fuel in the tank ( You could just blow down it). If you did it hard enough it would mix it a bit as well. Put a rag around the filler pipe & hose as you do not want to get a fuel blow back up the filler pipe
.
I suppose my personal policy would not work for you, but I do have a full tank (45L) & I have recently purchased 7 No 18 litre cans of diesel as the price has dropped a bit. I can store them at home. Each can has had marine 16 added via a syringe. All done in one "sitting"
That means that I will just take the fuel to the boat as & when & not have to worry about additive for a while. Unless I have to top up abroad.

 

[jaminb]

Refueler thanks for sharing your pearls of wisdom must feel great to pass on your knowledge and experience. Yes it is the Diesel Fuel Complete from Marine 16.

Sandy about to hit the red on the gauge and not sure when I can next get to the fuel dock over the coming few weeks - don't want my heater to stop running!

Daydream i have hopefully sorted my previous diesel bug issue with a home made polisher and scrubbing out the lowest point of the tank. Please see my conclusion of previous drama.
Have I got diesel ??

Going to replace the fuel filters now I have a nice full tank of fresh fuel - hopefully no sludge to be seen, not had any problems over the season and certainly shaken the tank up a few times.

Should my webasto have an inline filter? - cant recall seeing one.

thanks again

 

[Refueler]

Refueler thanks for sharing your pearls of wisdom must feel great to pass on your knowledge and experience. Yes it is the Diesel Fuel Complete from Marine 16.

Sarcasm aside ... having had some rather insulting remarks in the past from some that have zero knowledge of the subject .. after trying to help - I am not so forthcoming with info on the matter.
If people want to know more about the subject - then they can ask me direct. But also note that I am reluctant to get into Brand vs Brand tit tat on here.

Its well known - I have scant regard for Fuel Polishing as all it does is filter .. nothing else.
Its well known that in terms of additive - I have only one recommendation : Enzyme based. All others are only half the job.

Use what you wish ...

As regards what you use - pour it in when you get it ... if you have clean tanks as you claim - then what are you worried about ??

 

[Sandy]

Refueler thanks for sharing your pearls of wisdom must feel great to pass on your knowledge and experience. Yes it is the Diesel Fuel Complete from Marine 16.

Sandy about to hit the red on the gauge and not sure when I can next get to the fuel dock over the coming few weeks - don't want my heater to stop running!

Daydream i have hopefully sorted my previous diesel bug issue with a home made polisher and scrubbing out the lowest point of the tank. Please see my conclusion of previous drama.
Have I got diesel ??

Going to replace the fuel filters now I have a nice full tank of fresh fuel - hopefully no sludge to be seen, not had any problems over the season and certainly shaken the tank up a few times.

Should my webasto have an inline filter? - cant recall seeing one.

thanks again

Do you not have a wee 'Y' switch allowing yo to feed the heater from a jerry can?

I've only got a Chinese diesel heater and it has an inline filter.

 

[jaminb]

No sarcasm intended. Indeed I believe it was your previous posts, and the Cadoha interview of the Marine 16 proprietor, that convinced me polishing the fuel via the tank outlet point (above any sludge) would do little more than the exiting inline filters. which is why I attached a mini washing up brush to a cranked copper pipe, scrubbed the bottom of the tank while sucking the loosened detritus and water through my home made polisher. Not much came out which makes me think / hope I might have got away with only a minor dose of bug - hopefully filter replacement will confirm I am in the clear. This is also why I have been using the DFC this season rather than the Treatment.

My heater extracts from the top of the main tank from an unknown depth, hence my nervousness and keeness to replenish stocks today.

 

[Baddox]

Its well known that in terms of additive - I have only one recommendation : Enzyme based. All others are only half the job.

I’m curious about why you prefer that. For me, prevention is better than cure.

A good biocide will kill the bacteria and stop them forming a biofilm or sludge. Once a biofilm has formed it is very difficult to break down even with a cocktail of enzymes partly because of the biofilm structure and also limited by the specificity of each type of enzymes for its target material.

 

[Refueler]

No sarcasm intended. Indeed I believe it was your previous posts, and the Cadoha interview of the Marine 16 proprietor, that convinced me polishing the fuel via the tank outlet point (above any sludge) would do little more than the exiting inline filters. which is why I attached a mini washing up brush to a cranked copper pipe, scrubbed the bottom of the tank while sucking the loosened detritus and water through my home made polisher. Not much came out which makes me think / hope I might have got away with only a minor dose of bug - hopefully filter replacement will confirm I am in the clear. This is also why I have been using the DFC this season rather than the Treatment.

My heater extracts from the top of the main tank from an unknown depth, hence my nervousness and keeness to replenish stocks today.

Now this I can appreciate and agree with ... you have used a system to extract maximum crap and then filter it out. Very good.

The use of additive after - here comes the decision as to what you use ... do you assume that bug infestation is solved and just use a biocide that kills any potential .. or do you use an Enzyme based that kills and also breaks up the result to burn in the engine ?

Lets take 'Baddox' post :

I’m curious about why you prefer that. For me, prevention is better than cure.

A good biocide will kill the bacteria and stop them forming a biofilm or sludge. Once a biofilm has formed it is very difficult to break down even with a cocktail of enzymes partly because of the biofilm structure and also limited by the specificity of each type of enzymes for its target material.

mmmm sadly not strictly correct. Having created / owned / run Petrochem Labs for many years ... I can say that killing 'bug' will cause sediments to collect ... as it collects - you will end up with the dark brown / near black sludge .....
There is no 'prevention'. Prevention is to stop the bugs getting into your fuel. Impossible. ALL fuel has potential bugs ... Kero - Gasoil - Lubricating Oil - etc. What you can do is reduce the risk of it multiplying - then Bio alone is good enough - until accumulation of crap gets to point you need to clean it out ... So why not use an Enzyme based from the start and avoid that ?? The Enzyme based is targeted to all Bugs - Yeats / Molds / Bacteria and SRB ....
This is where people get waylaid in this ... the filters and system get blocked by the dead and accumulated filth of the bugs ... not the live bugs. If you just kill the bugs - you are not solving the whole situation.
If you wish to just use a bio to kill - then you will need to pump via filters - stirring up tank while doing it ... as "jaminbo" has done.
If you use just a bIo and you do not suffer blocked filters - then your Bug problem is extremely mild or maybe non existent.

I advocate a total dosing regime - enzyme based along with syphoning / filtering to achieve maximum kill, filtering and burning of any residual in the engine.

I make no apologies to any on this - it is my belief based on many years involved with this.

I read of peoples Fuel Polishing and other systems .. I watched M16's videos ... have had own mishaps with Bugs which along with my Labs work - convinced me to stop using additives that did not include Enzyme base.