boomerangben
Well-Known Member
By night yes, but I’m off to get a day night to carry for sailing by day and have a floating smoke in the boat. Current one out of date!
Mixed feelings about Flares
- Thread starter Barnacle Bill
- Start date
ylop
Well-Known Member
White LEDs aren't actually white LEDs they are usually another colour of LED with a phosphor over then which when excited by the underlying LED gives a broad spectrum emission, including into the NIR.
However it looks like EVD manufacturers are aware people use NV to search at night:
ResQFlare PRO - High Intensity Electronic LED Emergency Boat Flare - ACR Electronics, Inc ResQFlare PRO Electronic Boat Flare USCG RTCM Approved | ACR Electronics
https://www.odeoflare.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/TDS_OdeoDistress_31-121Issue1_18072017.pdf (IR spec is listed too)
its not clear to be that ALL EVDs have a IR component but at least some do.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Right, I assumed NVGs were IR.
So if UK SAR don't use IR, not much point in optimising for it.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they do have an IR component. ...but how visible on an IR camera? Seems academic in the UK give the above post.
billskip
Well-Known Member
Keyboard worriers...eh..
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Get the latest in orange smoke flares. But be careful, make sure you wear gloves.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I think you've misunderstood boomerangben
westhinder
Well-Known Member
In Belgium they aren’t, Belgian-flagged yachts are still required to carry in-date flares. As far as I’m aware that does not apply to foreign boats in Belgian waters.
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
Uk SAR use both NVIS and FLIR technology (as well as electronic homing capabilities, oh and 4 pairs of mk 1 eyeballs). They are different independent systems.
Laser310
Well-Known Member
USCG uses both IR and NVG.
Isn't one of the big advantages of LED's that they don't waste energy making heat?
I don't think LED heat will be very detectable, compared to the heat of the boat itself.
But USCG is not advising against e-flares.., at least as far as I know.
In the Newport-Bermuda race last June, three boats were lost - they sank! Two on the way to Bermuda, and one on the delivery back. All crew were rescued; The crew of the two during the race were rescued by other racing boats, and the one on the delivery back was rescued by USCG.
I am pretty sure that no flares of any kind were used.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Portuguese registered boats and visitors there >6 months are required to carry flares as well as other safety equipment. Last time I checked, they had to be standard flares, not laser.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Ok, apologies I guess I got the wrong idea.
ImpImp
Well-Known Member
Image intensification type Night Vision Gear (NVG) which are the type still used by almost all SAR aircraft and are often referred to as IR (sometimes 'near IR') will pick up (and amplify) light in the visible spectrum. The type of NVG often referred to as TI (sometimes "far IR') which is becoming increasingly de rigueur in military aircraft will not, (don't try to signal an Apache AH with an IR strobe) however AKAIK SAR ac and vessels do not rely on this method for obvious reasons. The move today is towards gear that combines TI, IR and visible EO inputs into a single picture.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
In France there is an organization that deals with out of date pyrotechnic flares, pyreo.fr.
You can deposit them at any chandlery which sells flares, without any obligation to purchase
So maybe Daydream believer’s suggestion of taking them to France is not so daft, just deposit them at a chandlery rather than chucking them in our harbours as he suggested.
You can deposit them at any chandlery which sells flares, without any obligation to purchase
So maybe Daydream believer’s suggestion of taking them to France is not so daft, just deposit them at a chandlery rather than chucking them in our harbours as he suggested.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
I think that, in UK - at least, the problem is that, whilst years ago it was easy for private individuals to dispose of out of date pyrotechnics (coastguard, local police station, training centres etc), nowadays it isn’t. And manufacturers and trade sellers have not been made to respond to the changed times.
So, we have a situation where it is ok to manufacture and sell date-stamped pyrotechnics which, let’s face it, are pretty scary to use at the best of times, without offering a way for sailors to dispose of them when they are out of date.
Couple this with guidance requiring these items be onboard and in-date and, again, no solution for dealing with them when they are out of date and there’s a complete shifting of the problem onto the shoulders of you and me.
When I was buying them, I would have been happy to pay a supplement to allow me to hand them back when out of date. Heaven forfend, they might have been recycled and helped in some small way with another problem.
So, we have a situation where it is ok to manufacture and sell date-stamped pyrotechnics which, let’s face it, are pretty scary to use at the best of times, without offering a way for sailors to dispose of them when they are out of date.
Couple this with guidance requiring these items be onboard and in-date and, again, no solution for dealing with them when they are out of date and there’s a complete shifting of the problem onto the shoulders of you and me.
When I was buying them, I would have been happy to pay a supplement to allow me to hand them back when out of date. Heaven forfend, they might have been recycled and helped in some small way with another problem.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
There is a scheme, set up after the HMCG consultation a few years ago. It's been mentioned a few times up the thread. It might not be as widespread or convenient as you'd like, but it's there.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
It does appear to be a bit half-hearted.
For example, as far as I can see there is only site offering this service in the Solent area (Ocean Safety, in Southampton).
And they don’t exactly shout about it.
I would like to see something much more extensive; ideally that any seller of pyrotechnics has to offer an end of life take-back facility.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I’ve been in chandleries on both the west coast and east coast of Scotland who will take flares for a few pounds each (whether you are buying new ones or bought them there or not). Is this service not offered elsewhere?
Except for the chandleries who do take them and the liferaft service agents etc… is there really a problem to solve? Or in reality would people grumble even if there was a free service that would pick them up from your door?
How many of them don’t?
If however they had to take them FOC than I can imagine this means either places stop selling pyros or insist on proof of purchase from them for disposal - you’d end up with orphaned pyros where the paperwork was missing, the person or boat had moved significantly etc.
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Quite a few chandleries do take flares, but far from all, and some only on a like-for-like basis when you buy new - which is no good if you want rid! Benjenbav's point is that the official site for finding flare disposal lists almost none of them. Several people on this thread have suggested that the existence of the site means there's no problem, but it's pretty useless. Getting rid of flares isn't really hard, but it's become surprisingly bothersome.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
It’s what’s good about the French system.
I know, I know, bloody European making rules instead of just letting everyone do their own thing. Swines.
I know, I know, bloody European making rules instead of just letting everyone do their own thing. Swines.
