GEM43
Well-Known Member
I was in Largs chandlery this week, fairly sure that I saw a sign on the desk that said disposal available at £2.50 per item for disposal.
Mixed feelings about Flares
- Thread starter Barnacle Bill
- Start date
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
I definitely did not say that so I don't know where you read it. I said that the changed regulations seemed to me excessive. This is plainly not the same thing.
That said, there seem to be quite a number of people on this thread with much bigger and older piles of flares than the one I thought was a bad thing (and paid to get rid of). That means I now think big boxes of old flares are probably less dangerous than I thought they might be, if it's really true that there are many such stashes and few problems from them.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Almost every time I go out, I pass over a 200m depth area, clearly marked on the chart as an "Explosives Dumping Ground".......
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I can assure you having seen the results of several high voltage cables and a high pressure gas main dug up with excavators a few flares aren't going to cause a change of underwear for the excavator driver. High voltage cables and the associated flash, bang and smell of burning metal and boiling hydraulic fluid on the other hand.Phasers set to lethal and photon torpedoes.
Or mebbe a hand held red......
penberth3
Well-Known Member
I don't think any Regulations have changed? Organisations that accepted old flares at no cost as "a favour" have quite rightly decided not to do it any more. Apart from the practical and legal side of storage at their end it was costing them money they need for their day to day activities. This was known to be coming for years, HMCG consulted on it and came up with a disposal scheme. It might involve a bit of travel and expense, maybe a bit more than before, but it's there. What's "excessive" about that?
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Penberth3 - I refer, as did the whole discussion, to the changes to the explosives and/or terrorism acts that many people suspect makes a couple of tubes of slightly expired flares in your garden shed an "illegal store of explosive material" (whether or not it does - I'm not qualified to say - but nobody wants to find out the hard way) where before it was just a daft idea.
I don't think flare disposal costs are a law change or a bad idea - I think it was incorrect for the taxpayer to pick up the bill before (in the UK where carrying flares is not mandated). I do think the difficulty of getting rid of old flares is partly worsened by the tightened explosives regs (reduced storage capacity and hence total rate that existing places can get rid of flares) as well as other things.
I'd be happier with a situation where people with piles of old flares were encouraged to come forward (rather than fearing illegality) and get some kind of constructive advice on how to store them safely until they can be disposed of costeffectively, but I don't see how to get there from here.
I don't think flare disposal costs are a law change or a bad idea - I think it was incorrect for the taxpayer to pick up the bill before (in the UK where carrying flares is not mandated). I do think the difficulty of getting rid of old flares is partly worsened by the tightened explosives regs (reduced storage capacity and hence total rate that existing places can get rid of flares) as well as other things.
I'd be happier with a situation where people with piles of old flares were encouraged to come forward (rather than fearing illegality) and get some kind of constructive advice on how to store them safely until they can be disposed of costeffectively, but I don't see how to get there from here.
GEM43
Well-Known Member
I think disposing of TEP has to be seen as just part of the routine cost of boat ownership. Not much different to paying to dispose of “hazardous waste” at your local recycling centre. I hate to see sheets of broken asbestos dumped nefariously in the middle of the night in a farm gateway. In a similar vein I can’t see how it’s right for yotties to do anything other than dispose of TEP in the proper manner and accept the cost for what it is.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Personal opinion, is that people don't want to spend money on disposal of TEPs, which is one of the reasons they don't do it, also the difficulty finding a suitable disposal place. A google search always throws up Ocean Safety, and as reported on here, Marina Chandler's are taking them. Storing TEPs in a dry environment is usually good enough. Perhaps fire statistics would show that there is no issue storing TEPS at home. Disposal costs in 2022 were around £3 per item. A cost effective approach would be to dispose of a few at a time assuming most people have regular income, to avoid a big one off expense. Even so, about £100 to get rid of a large pile of TEPs that a consumer may acquire, is hardly going to break the bank in my opinion.
All the documentation that I read states with clarity that it is illegal to set off TEPS, dump at sea, recreations off "The Crazy World of Arthur Brown" renditions of "Fire".
To be blunt, all the information is available on line and people need to pay up to depose of the their stock pile of TEPs, be responsible and make the effort to drive to one of the facilities, and if buying a boat, make it part of the sales agreement that seller removes all TEPs (or flares).
OCuea
N/A
I thought the world was trying to reduce plastic deposits into the sea?
Scomber
Well-Known Member
Fairly sure it was , white. Think we prob did a few before this one. Was held correctly, on exit took a very sharp curve , hit ground close by. Think exit point on tube was faulty/ weak. That's all I can remember. As I say , never did another, they were well out of date.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
One last comment before you get bored with me
.I'm not aware of any recent changes to the quantities or types of flares that can be stored at home. If I'm wrong please let me know. To keep it simple I'll leave firearms and explosives out of the argument, not relevant here.
As you say a stash in a garden shed, of any age or condition, is a bad idea.
OCuea
N/A
I found a map
Flares are left in boats in hot lockers perhaps expired for years. Are they just as bad as a shed or worse or better in your opinion ? Genuine interest. Not trying to argue.
Certainly not my choice but why a bad idea?
Flares are left in boats in hot lockers perhaps expired for years. Are they just as bad as a shed or worse or better in your opinion ? Genuine interest. Not trying to argue.
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Wow, this thread is the new home base of Willfully Misconstruing People. Nobody, anywhere, seriously argued for dodgy disposal! Some people were joking to better or worse effect.
I'm not a lawyer, but it looks to me as though protracted home storage is rather restricted even under the 2014 explosives regulations (HSE Explosives - Storing explosives - they are category 4 if I understand correctly) and there are certainly clauses in more recent anti-terrorism legislation that I don't think people are automatically unreasonable to be concerned about. I'm not personally because I won't have flares, but I am sympathetic to people who've put off dealing with an old boxful while it's gradually crept from "minor annoyance" to "legal problem of unknown scope". Attacking anyone for saying maybe this isn't a great situation just makes people look weird and maybe a bit flare obsessed.
I do think a new boatowner paying anything up to a couple of hundred quid for someone else to bin the flares that a previous owner hid really well is a bit steep (they don't go to a magic kingdom, they go into Incinerator MkII - Now with Bureaucracy! Compliance is its own cost). Hence disagreed with attacking people who grumble about it. I still think anyone buying a pack is mostly buying an expensive and wasteful comfort blanket and most people would be better off spending the time, money and effort on other things*. Unless you really want to race and some poorly thought through race rules mandate them, it's not a routine cost of boating, it's a trap. We don't carry a barrel of tar to burn on the foredeck any more... one day flares will go the same way. Let's bring that a bit closer.
*don't get me started on how many boats have badly placed jackstays! Safety doesn't start with distress signalling...
I'm not a lawyer, but it looks to me as though protracted home storage is rather restricted even under the 2014 explosives regulations (HSE Explosives - Storing explosives - they are category 4 if I understand correctly) and there are certainly clauses in more recent anti-terrorism legislation that I don't think people are automatically unreasonable to be concerned about. I'm not personally because I won't have flares, but I am sympathetic to people who've put off dealing with an old boxful while it's gradually crept from "minor annoyance" to "legal problem of unknown scope". Attacking anyone for saying maybe this isn't a great situation just makes people look weird and maybe a bit flare obsessed.
I do think a new boatowner paying anything up to a couple of hundred quid for someone else to bin the flares that a previous owner hid really well is a bit steep (they don't go to a magic kingdom, they go into Incinerator MkII - Now with Bureaucracy! Compliance is its own cost). Hence disagreed with attacking people who grumble about it. I still think anyone buying a pack is mostly buying an expensive and wasteful comfort blanket and most people would be better off spending the time, money and effort on other things*. Unless you really want to race and some poorly thought through race rules mandate them, it's not a routine cost of boating, it's a trap. We don't carry a barrel of tar to burn on the foredeck any more... one day flares will go the same way. Let's bring that a bit closer.
*don't get me started on how many boats have badly placed jackstays! Safety doesn't start with distress signalling...
DreadShips
Well-Known Member
The alternative route to safe destruction of them, as practiced by my father in law, is to wait for age and dementia to make it somebody else's problem.
In his case the problem bequeathed to us however was a whole damn live tank round, and the German bomb squad turned up to do the necessary...
In his case the problem bequeathed to us however was a whole damn live tank round, and the German bomb squad turned up to do the necessary...
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Good grief! I guess that worked fine, for him... puts flares into perspective rather.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how they've managed to accrue such stockpiles, when consistently for the last 30 years TEP disposal had been a topic in the boating press and its challenges were clearly only going to get worse. Basically they've hidden their head in the sand and hoped it would magically disappear. Given the age of many on here I wonder how many have explained to their executors how to deal with the stash in the shed!
Its supposed to be a warning not an invitation!
I've never heard of anyone with a stash of old flares coming forward and being threatened with criminality - that sounds like scaremongering. The advice on disposal is clear.
I've never heard of flares spontaneously igniting in either location, but I'm not sure how many boats have really old flares - whilst flares brought home with no disposal plan probably do become really old. I have heard of a flare being blamed for writing off a bin lorry - but I assume the compactor triggered it.
Mmm... i'm not convinced, and less convinced still that others reading the thread in the future wouldn't think e.g. ah just dumping at sea is what some people quietly do.
£200 at the quoted £2.50-3 per flare is 65-80 flares. If someone had managed to overlook that many TEP they either bought a superyacht or weren't very dilligent!
ylop
Well-Known Member
I've seen fireworks go wrong and it is not pretty BUT given the choice of standing 6 foot from a typical domestic fireworks rocket aimed at me and the same distance from a parachute flare I'll take the rocket*.
Yes.
mmm... almost all fireworks are set off at a "safe" distance because they are a bit unpredictable. The balance with distress flares has always been that you were in a life and death situation not having a party.
Yachties definitely complain about the cost of flares as well as the disposal! That said I don't know if you've bought fireworks recently - I haven't buy someone I know had some at New Year and remarked said it cost about £1 per second for the display box!
*to be 100% clear I'm not keen on either option and both have real potential for life changing injury or death!
achwilan3
New Member
I use to fire old hand held (red) flares inside mole tunnels in order to discourage them from invading my garden…
A bit heretic… but it works…)
A bit heretic… but it works…
)OCuea
N/A
Back to the OP. Our sailing club wanted to do similar to your OP to give experience. Nearby CG said no problem and lots of people realised what it was like to let off a flare. Glad leather gauntlets were used. Over 25 years ago …… things may have changed.
