Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
You are far to sensible for this place
Mixed feelings about Flares
- Thread starter Barnacle Bill
- Start date
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Which, in this context, is?
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Point it at an orca & fire
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Jesting about DIY disposal aside...
- all this stuff with expiry and disposal makes flares soak up cash and time
- the effect on your likelihood of survival appears to be minimal (even in cases where they are used and there's a successful rescue, there's rarely an indication that the rescue would have been unsuccessful if the flares were unavailable - there's a lot of "I did something, therefore it helped" fallacy on the loose)
- therefore that cash and time is probably better spent elsewhere nowadays (and maybe always was) - even if money's no object, effort is finite and I'd rather spend it on reducing the chance of needing to call for help at all... there is always more to do there
- they don't seem to actually attract attention very reliably - there are quite a lot of accounts of them going unnoticed (I wonder if lower awareness due to rarer use is a factor)
- they can be dangerous - there's definitely far more than one account of injury!
- it seems to be hard to even get the chance to try one, so someone newer to sailing is effectively expected to let them off for the first time during an actual emergency - no thanks
- heard in more than one place (but might just be echoes) that sea schools can't always even get insurance coverage for letting students let one off in a safety course any more - not sure if true, but concerning if so
- people who are really concerned about maximising their chance of rescue these days have access to a lot of electronics that didn't exist when flares were the preferred option, and can choose options that are appropriate to the very different levels of how adventurous or remote they might be (a satellite reaches a lot further than a red parachute...)
so, yes, I'm still going to call them wretched. Carrying around a load of expensive, decaying fireworks "just in case" can get stuffed. If I die earlier and differently as a result, which is very low odds, so be it.
- all this stuff with expiry and disposal makes flares soak up cash and time
- the effect on your likelihood of survival appears to be minimal (even in cases where they are used and there's a successful rescue, there's rarely an indication that the rescue would have been unsuccessful if the flares were unavailable - there's a lot of "I did something, therefore it helped" fallacy on the loose)
- therefore that cash and time is probably better spent elsewhere nowadays (and maybe always was) - even if money's no object, effort is finite and I'd rather spend it on reducing the chance of needing to call for help at all... there is always more to do there
- they don't seem to actually attract attention very reliably - there are quite a lot of accounts of them going unnoticed (I wonder if lower awareness due to rarer use is a factor)
- they can be dangerous - there's definitely far more than one account of injury!
- it seems to be hard to even get the chance to try one, so someone newer to sailing is effectively expected to let them off for the first time during an actual emergency - no thanks
- heard in more than one place (but might just be echoes) that sea schools can't always even get insurance coverage for letting students let one off in a safety course any more - not sure if true, but concerning if so
- people who are really concerned about maximising their chance of rescue these days have access to a lot of electronics that didn't exist when flares were the preferred option, and can choose options that are appropriate to the very different levels of how adventurous or remote they might be (a satellite reaches a lot further than a red parachute...)
so, yes, I'm still going to call them wretched. Carrying around a load of expensive, decaying fireworks "just in case" can get stuffed. If I die earlier and differently as a result, which is very low odds, so be it.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
All of which is why I carry an LED flare.
If I don't use it., it lasts for years before the battery needs replacing, when it will last for years more, and if I do, It works for hours, rather than seconds.
If I don't use it., it lasts for years before the battery needs replacing, when it will last for years more, and if I do, It works for hours, rather than seconds.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Don't dick about with stuff you don't understand. Basically.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
You have indeed got a problem. This needs dealing with professionally, not CG, RNLI, Police, Fire. They don't have the capability and it's nothing to do with them anyway, it's your problem. Any DIY attempts will be illegal, hazardous and stupid, and whatever you do you'll have toxic residues, so don't try it. Keeping your "large" quantity might also be an Explosives Act offence, which puts you in the same bracket as terrorists. You need to get yourself out of this situation ASAP. It will cost you but its entirely your responsibility.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
.
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
See Tranonas post #71.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
When I was building I would probably have put them in some deep concrete foundations. Dropped them in a deep bored pile, & buried them.
justanothersailboat
Well-Known Member
Only bounces you to the near-useless "the green blue" site which doesn't actually list many flare disposal options that really exist (and may include some that don't). And tends to show company HQs on its map as if they were places you can go, including companies who don't deal with individuals. I tried this approach to solve the problem, it did not work at all for me.
The answer is still phoning round chandleries to find out if they take them and have room (not all mention it on their websites), then forking out a lump of cash. With a particularly big old hoard, maybe breaking it up in batches. And if possible refusing to accept the previous owner's flares when buying a used boat.
It is, of course, absurd that explosives regulation is so sloppily drafted that a box of old marine flares is now a big problem, but there's no chance of sense there.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I wonder what happens in 50 years time when someone comes along with a jack hammer to make some major modifications…
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
There's a nail on head in there. Usual suspects whinging about having to spend a small amount of money, as per normal.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Well nothing really. The chemical composition will have decomposed. As it starts doing after 3 years, hence the need to buy new.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
8 Metres down? I expect Tony Robinson & Time Team will have a field day with their pointing trowel scrapping away. They will say it is a WW11 bomb.
ylop
Well-Known Member
You can dispose of them - ask at the places you buy them or which do liferaft servicing etc. there is usually a fee but it’s perfectly possible to do.
Good way is possibly questionable in 2025… I was surprised to see people here saying if they were going transocean they would carry them but coastal they wouldn’t. That seemed counter intuitive to me.
New iPhones (and I think top end androids) can send satellite emergency calls, I think the days of holding burning metal at arms length may be over.
A new pack of offshore flares, delivered costs about the same as a PLB. Mine are due for replacement this season and will almost certainly become a PLB. Perhaps a handheld electronic flare - but what to replace the smokes with?
ylop
Well-Known Member
Ah, so 50 yr old flares are safe and whacking them hard with metal objects will be fine? Makes you wonder what all the fuss with disposal is about! I’m not convinced storing them in a barrel of water is actually any safer either.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Let's hope for generations coming up behind us it's not a WW3 bomb......
Steamkettle
New Member
Try contacting one of the liferaft service companies; they deal with time-expired flares on a regular basis so may be able to help (for a price!). Utterly ridiculous that the law virtually forces someone to act unlawfully by dumping them at sea or on land.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
There's masses online about them. For example:
Marine pyrotechnics, like hand flares and parachute rockets, contain a chemical mixture that, when ignited, produces light and/or smoke to signal distress. These mixtures typically include an oxidizer, a fuel, and a colorant. The specific composition varies depending on the type of pyrotechnic and the desired effect.
Here's a more detailed look:
Key Ingredients:
- Oxidizer:
Provides oxygen to support combustion. Examples include potassium nitrate, potassium perchlorate, or sodium nitrate. - Fuel:
Provides the energy for the reaction. Common fuels include charcoal, sulfur, sawdust, aluminum, magnesium, or polymeric resins. - Colorant:
Adds a specific color to the flame or smoke. Common colorants include strontium nitrate (red), magnesium (bright white), or barium nitrate (green).
Types of Marine Pyrotechnics:
- Hand Flares: Produce a bright red flame that can be seen from a distance.
- Parachute Rocket Flares: Launch a bright red flare to a high altitude, where it deploys a parachute, providing a long-lasting signal.
- Buoyant Smoke Signals: Produce a dense orange smoke that can be seen from a distance, especially in daylight.
- Light Smoke Signals (MOB Signals): Designed for man-overboard situations, providing both daytime and nighttime signaling.
- Line Throwing Apparatus: Used to launch a line to a distress signal, aiding in rescue operations.
Other Considerations:
- SOLAS Regulations:
Marine pyrotechnics are regulated by SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) regulations, ensuring they are effective and reliable.
- Expiry Dates:
Marine pyrotechnics have an expiry date and should be replaced after that date to ensure proper function.
- Happy to stress again, it's not torpex, plastic explosive or a Trident Missile.....
