Juan Twothree
Well-Known Member
The CG don't have the authority to grant permission.
There's no problem with hand flares if they can't be seen from seawards, and mistaken for a genuine sign of distress, but parachute flares are a definite no no.
Mixed feelings about Flares
- Thread starter Barnacle Bill
- Start date
There's no problem with hand flares if they can't be seen from seawards, and mistaken for a genuine sign of distress, but parachute flares are a definite no no.
OCuea
N/A
Then I do not know how we were given permission. 25 years ago at least. Only thing blocking us from sea view and CG station about a mile away was a sea wall.
Do you know who does have authority to give permission?
Juan Twothree
Well-Known Member
25 years ago we could get away with things we can't today.
From memory, it is a breach of the Merchant Shipping Act, and the CG certainly don't have the authority to give permission to fire red flares.
In practice, if they can't be seen from seawards, you'd probably get away from it.
Red hand flares are ok, but you'd need to be quite a few miles inland to fire red paraflares.
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
Telling the CG (rather than asking permission) will at least allow them to correctly assess the subsequent 999 call for sighting a red flare.
Reminds me that I have a small pack of out of date flares to deal with. I’m hoping the chandler I bought them from will take them
Given I spend my working life with a day/night tucked under my arm 3000’ above the North Sea, I don’t see flares as dangerous. Hazardous potentially but not dangerous. I also see how difficult it is to see a person in water or identify a single boat in fleet, or simply how bright flares are and how quickly other vessels could be alerted to a vessel in distress. So I see the benefit of flares but also aware of the cost and chances of needing to use them diminishing the appetite for having them.
It seems to me the moral of the story unfolding here is to not put off turning in flares as they go out of date. Most of us only need a few so the financial cost should be bearable compared with getting rid of an accumulation of them. And perhaps refusing to include out of date flares when buying second hand boats
Reminds me that I have a small pack of out of date flares to deal with. I’m hoping the chandler I bought them from will take them
Given I spend my working life with a day/night tucked under my arm 3000’ above the North Sea, I don’t see flares as dangerous. Hazardous potentially but not dangerous. I also see how difficult it is to see a person in water or identify a single boat in fleet, or simply how bright flares are and how quickly other vessels could be alerted to a vessel in distress. So I see the benefit of flares but also aware of the cost and chances of needing to use them diminishing the appetite for having them.
It seems to me the moral of the story unfolding here is to not put off turning in flares as they go out of date. Most of us only need a few so the financial cost should be bearable compared with getting rid of an accumulation of them. And perhaps refusing to include out of date flares when buying second hand boats
GEM43
Well-Known Member
Interesting commentary regarding identifying a vessel from 3k ft. That’s why I think I will purchase two floating smokes specifically for that purpose.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
How do LED/laser flares compare with flares from the air? They have the obvious advantage that they last longer, but are they as visible?
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Also important are they accepted in lieu of the real thing in countries like France
ylop
Well-Known Member
There's potentially a legal defence if you are feeling brave that the MSA does not apply inland... but your local mountain rescue team would appreciate if you didn't have them trawling the hills for a report of a flare and the fire brigade would probably prefer you didn't set off in populated or wooded areas either!
Is the simple and safest answer actually the old tech american style Orange sheet with square and circle on it?
You'd hope that given their purpose is to guide help the final mile that this was tested but the design does look like directly from above may be a blind spot - although I suspect few people can hold one that upright on a moving boat?
Only if you fall into the regulatory remit of France, or indeed even intend visiting such countries.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
One advantage of flares the proponents of them never seem to mention is that they show up brilliantly on IR.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Clearly nobody should ever let one off on Firework night. There's always a few red parachute flares launched on Firework night around the Solent area and I've never heard it acted on on Ch16. Those people should absolutely not dispose of their flares in that fashion.
...and let's be honest, it's a flare, nobody was going to find them! It's not like it was a DSC/Epirb/999 call.
ylop
Well-Known Member
Compared to the cold sea I expect electronic flares do show up on NVG - obviously not to the extent of an actual flare (unless they have IR leds too?) but if that was a concern we would have rescue services discouraging their use which I haven't seen.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I'll have to look at mine. Given its long illumination time, I think I'd probably lash it to a stanchion while I get on with trying not to sink
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
Searches by SAR aircraft will generally be done from around 500’, but even so, a smoke will make the search much easier and quicker
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty ignorant of these things but although I'm sure LEDs emit IR and there are dedicated Infrared LEDs I really can't imagine either would get close to a thing that can gets so hot it can burn your face off. Hopefully someone who knows will be along soon.
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
I’ve been out of SAR for a while now and didn’t ever get to compare. Pyros are much brighter and produce smoke so I expect a pyro is better during the day. From what I’ve read, eFlares are night only approved by USCG. By night, all SAR helos in the uk are equipped with NVG so any IR or non coloured LEDs and conventional lights will show up upto a few miles away. I don’t know if lifeboats have any NVIS capability though which of course might be what is searching for you
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
On the NVGs I’ve used, red, green and blue LEDs show up very poorly (or not at all). I imagine the approved eFlares (by USCG) contain both IR and white LEDs but I don’t know for sure and if I was in the market for one, I’d check my choice had a white component. As it is, I have a white Jotron strobe I carry in my sailing jacket at night.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
So, forgive my ignorance, but are you saying white light shows up well on IR even if the temperature is low?
GEM43
Well-Known Member
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Pretty obvious really
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
NVGs are essentially light amplifiers, not heat detectors. However they don’t amplify all wavelengths equally, hence the issue with certain colours being poorly seen. They do however see some of the IR spectrum better than we do, but they are not specific IR detectors. Whilst the FLIR cameras a very sensitive, I don’t think the tiny amount of heat from an LED is easy to see
